[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] KoO 101 I've stated before in this thread that I think the problem people have with Halo: Reach is that it doesn't respect the canon established by TFoR. Sure, it can be made to fit with some retcons and some other unshown things to help it all connect, but why should that be necessary? Bungie disrespected 8 years of established canon IMO. That's what's wrong with Reach IMO.[/quote] The Fall of Reach was the first piece of expanded universe content we got...10 years ago. Since then the Halo Universe has grown to tremendous size. If you honestly expected everything to always fit and be 100% correct, sci-fi isn't the genre for you.[/quote] I'm going to vote for this to be the Post of the Day. Genius. (no sarcasm, just appreciation.) [Edited on 08.13.2011 11:13 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] KoO 101 I've stated before in this thread that I think the problem people have with Halo: Reach is that it doesn't respect the canon established by TFoR. Sure, it can be made to fit with some retcons and some other unshown things to help it all connect, but why should that be necessary? Bungie disrespected 8 years of established canon IMO. That's what's wrong with Reach IMO.[/quote] The Fall of Reach was the first piece of expanded universe content we got...10 years ago. Since then the Halo Universe has grown to tremendous size. If you honestly expected everything to always fit and be 100% correct, sci-fi isn't the genre for you.

Games > Books. It is a series of books made from the games. They games will always take precedence over the books. It's the same as if a new Star Wars movie completely contradicted an established book. The movie is given greater weight, as it is the core medium of advancing the universe. It's the exact same situation as the Halo Universe. While yes, Bungie has stated on multiple occasions, that the books are an Official part of the Halo Canon, they also will never render the story of a game as invalid. The games are what the books are based on, not the other way around. The differences before the retcon weren't that severe anyways. TFoR is about the Master Chief and the Spartans around him. Halo: Reach is about Noble Team's action behind the scenes as their support role unfolded. Besides, they retconned everything thus it all works together. Jun dies getting Halsey enough time for her ship to launch from Castle Base. The magnitude of Reach's defenses. Times and dates. Dr. Halsey's Journal actually fixed most of the "errors" that most people complain about. All fixed and the original story was left perfectly intact. So why can't everyone just chill out and enjoy the deep, detailed Universe created by both mediums? Before I get flamed, I am a huge, huge fan of both the games as well as the books and canon. After reading and playing all of them since the various retcon's began, I am satisfied with the fixes. The canon is as perfect as it is going to get, and both 343 & Bungie (as well as anyone else who has created a Universe like this) have admitted that no Canon & game will ever match up perfectly. It isn't possible. Just enjoy this Universe. It's one of the best ever created IMHO.

I'm not all that great with halo canon, I just have some questions -Didn't the covenent just, sort of, stumble on Earth when they were following MC or something? -What did noble team actually gain from finding the forerunner info and adding it to cortana? -Can we pretend the PoA was making a pitstop..? [Edited on 08.13.2011 10:12 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ODKT Haplo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hysterical Joker It's simply just very saddening at the utter disregard to prior canon. I understand that Bungie wanted to tell Noble's story because it's easier to get into than the story of the characters if TFoR, but to throw it out the window isn't fair to the diehard fans who delight in piecing together the strands between all the different canon.[/quote] amen to that.[/quote] Except, as Cobra stated, TFoR hasn't been completely thrown out. The game and the book can be made to connect, you just have to look for the ways it can be done.[/quote] I've stated before in this thread that I think the problem people have with Halo: Reach is that it doesn't respect the canon established by TFoR. Sure, it can be made to fit with some retcons and some other unshown things to help it all connect, but why should that be necessary? Bungie disrespected 8 years of established canon IMO. That's what's wrong with Reach IMO.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ODKT Haplo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hysterical Joker It's simply just very saddening at the utter disregard to prior canon. I understand that Bungie wanted to tell Noble's story because it's easier to get into than the story of the characters if TFoR, but to throw it out the window isn't fair to the diehard fans who delight in piecing together the strands between all the different canon.[/quote] amen to that.[/quote] Except, as Cobra stated, TFoR hasn't been completely thrown out. The game and the book can be made to connect, you just have to look for the ways it can be done.

They didn't completely throw it out though.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hysterical Joker It's simply just very saddening at the utter disregard to prior canon. I understand that Bungie wanted to tell Noble's story because it's easier to get into than the story of the characters if TFoR, but to throw it out the window isn't fair to the diehard fans who delight in piecing together the strands between all the different canon.[/quote] amen to that.

Juan Teran, would you like some ice for that burn?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Juan Teran [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Juan Teran I remember when someone asked Frankie if Jun's fate will ever be revealed. He said we will never know what really happened to him. In my opinion, he pretty much admitted (indirectly, of course) that they won't even bother repairing Halo:Reach, the story is a mess that can't be repaired. Main reason I don't consider the game canon and only ONI propaganda.[/quote] That assumption does not make any sense at all. So because they're not closing one aspect of the story (which really doesn't need much said about it) means that they won't deal with any of the rest of it? That's absolutely ridiculous! Where's your source for that quote anyway? I want to see the actual quote and context. And if the story can't be repaired then why are there so many people around on here, and on Waypoint's forums, who have proposed completely valid, and well thought out reasons that are completely plausible and fix the stories? Hmm, answer me that? And for your information, they have been dealing with pieces of Reach in small amounts, for instance in Visual Guide or whatever it's called that just came out or very small little bits and pieces in the Waypoint videos. You may consider it non-canon, you are very wrong in that assumption however. 343i regards Halo: Reach fully as canon, so your claims otherwise are moot. Like it or not, for better or worse, the game is canon and you can't officially do anything about it.[/quote]Wrong Coma, I've seen most of your posts, and if it wasn't for the fact that you take grammar seriously, and strongly believe that your arguments can change the world, I would immediately consider you a troll. In fact, most of the stuff you write makes no sense at all. According to you (sadly, I don't have the exact quote), it's good that Bungie broke the whole canon because it allows people to be "imaginative" and repair it by themselves. Also, you think that those who don't like Reach are only sad people who sit in front of their computer and do nothing but complain. Does that even make sense? And don't deny you've said this in the past. Again, Frankie is quick to comment that "we will never know what happened to Jun". Why not simply say that he died protecting Halsey? Or at least say that we will know in the future? Jun is not a minor character, he is a member of your beloved Noble Team. And you can see that actual quote in Halo Waypoint Youtube Channel when they respond to fan questions. In fact, I'm surprised you haven't seen that video yet. As for the small community who is trying to repair all the canon errors that Bungie made, are you seriously demanding a response from me? That question can only be answered with another question: WHY ARE THE FANS REPAIRING ALL THIS MESS? If Bungie cared, they would respect the established canon rather than creating all this mess. Oh yeah, I forgot, Games > Books, right? Wrong, Bungie made the Halo Story Bible, which they gave to Eric Nylund to write Halo: The Fall of Reach. I said this in the past, and someone replied at me that "Bungie only gave bits of the bible to the writers". Can't really remember who said that, but that person should be ashamed of himself/herself because that makes absolutely no sense. So Bungie contradicted it's own story before this game even existed? Sadly, I have to agree with you in your last sentence, there's nothing I can do. It's like that episode of The Simpsons, "The Principal and the Pauper", it happened, it was a mistake and we are still working in a time machine to protect our eyes from that episode, but still, it happened. There's nothing we can do about it. Idio... people will protect it and say it was a brave move from the writers, others will use common sense and, according to your logic, do nothing but complain about it. Reach is the exact same scenario, it happened, Bungie's tribute to the fans my ass...[/quote] Oh brother, so because you don't agree with me I'm essentially a troll? That is possibly one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. My posts may not seem to make sense to you, the rest of the community doesn't seem to have any trouble understanding me or my comments, so I think it's safe to assume that it's just you. *facepalm* I have never said that any time in my life or my time on these forums! What you have done is taken bits and pieces of various things I've said, stripped them completely of my original meaning, and thrown in your own biases. It'd be good if we had been given all the answers for the conflicts still standing (which I don't think are really that major), but we didn't so there's not much use crying about it :/ What I [i]have[/i] said is that trying to work the stories into one whole ourselves is a better alternative than just pointing faults (whether merely imagined, actual, severe, or minor) and complaining about it not being fixed immediately. And I most certainly do not think that about everyone who hates Reach (and I have never said either of those two things!), from some people that might be true, but not the majority of the people here. In fact, I'm on good terms with most of the people on here you see me arguing with! Like Grey, we're not exactly the best of pals as we always seem to be on opposite sides of all the various Halo issues, but he and I are friends. I don't know, I'm not Frank O'Conner so I don't know why he wouldn't say anything definite about Jun. I haven't had the time to do much of that sort of thing lately, I've been meaning to go watch the Comic Con interviews, just haven't managed to get to it yet. In the big scope of things Jun [i]is[/i] a minor character, so are the rest of Noble Team really. They're the same as the characters of ODST, they're not really major players in Halo's overall lore, thus they are minor characters. Being a minor character does not mean that one is insignificant and disposable though, like for instance look at Lord of the Rings, the characters of Theoden, Eomer, Eowyn, Faramir, and many more, are not really major characters, yet they're by no means insignificant to the story. The same with Noble. Yes I am demanding a response from you, you made the spurious claim that it was impossible to reconcile TFoR and Halo: Reach despite the large number of posts to the contrary that show the canon [i]can[/i] be made completely cohesive and the stories can be made to match. [i]My[/i] opinion is that Bungie (having access to all notes on both subject sources and all that) is satisfied with how they have linked things and believe that whatever they didn't explain are all things that can be resolved with just plain common sense (which most of them can) [i]or[/i] they felt what they haven't all ready explained should be resolved by 343i as they are now the creative heads of Halo and might wish to alter or change whatever Bungie had and [i]didn't[/i] all ready release. I personally think it is a mixture of the two. That is why I think Bungie didn't explain everything. Fans are proposing fixes because they actually care enough to try and find reasonable explanations themselves rather than waiting to be spoon fed everything and have it all explained for them. None of the prominent members here really do the latter, but is kind of what I have observed from their attitudes on the matter :/ And I'm not saying that waiting and not trying to figure it out is a bad thing, I'm saying that those trying to silence people who [i]are[/i] trying to work it out and proposing theories and ideas is what is bad. And do you know what was in the HSB at that time? Or how much it has changed and evolved over the years? And not to mention that there actually is a quote from Nylund regarding TFoR that there were some things [i]he[/i] completely made up as well as some things he and Bungie didn't exactly agree on in regards to the story. And besides which, Bungie has also stated that they weren't really expecting Halo to really be something big like it is now, and you can kind of see that reflected in TFoR. Naturally as a universe like Halo that wasn't initially meant for anymore than a "one time deal" sort of thing expands some things in the earlier stories are going to have to be changed to make sense in a fully expanded and very complex universe. I've said that before because it's true, I can't say if anyone else has said it too though. Why would Bungie give the whole Halo Bible to the people writing the books? That's pretty much asking for disaster to occur somewhere down the road. It is far more sensible to give the relevant bits and pieces for the authors to write their stories. If you had created a story and were still crafting its universe and you had hired someone else to come alongside and produce supplementary media in addition to what you yourself published, would you give them all your notes on the whole universe, or would you give them only the pieces they needed to build their portion? The second is the [i]sensible[/i] thing to do and saying someone should be ashamed of making that claim is ridiculous >_>

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] yamahaftw 3: The explanation for cortana on reach is that the Cortana that the chief and the POA was given was a copy, the real Cortana was still on reach helping Dr halsey. When Noble team delivered the real cortana to the POA, the copy and the real one combined, thus making the cortana we know today. [/quote] You've got that one completely backwards. The real Cortana was with John and the PoA. The copy stayed with Halsey. The journal covers this. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] yamahaftw 4: The explanation for the pillar of autumn on reach is that the chief and his team were deployed on the circumference as the POA was making its way planetside for "repairs". The Chief was then picked back up on the POA's way off the planet. ERROR: So the POA landed on reach, got the rocket pod thingies attached to it, got its armour upgraded and got the rest of Cortana delivered to it in under an hour?[/quote] False. People seem to forget that there's a time-gap between the space mission and the ground mission. The space mission takes place around...6:30 in the morning. The ground mission takes place a full ten hours later. John was in cryo, so he wouldn't have known about the change in plan and Red Team was under CASTLE. The only error seen here is the PoA being able to "land" on Reach.

Um, proof that is a spartan, and that is a frigate. The circumference was not a frigate, and James floated off into space from a STATION, not a ship. Your proof that the storyline was changed halfway through is sketchy at best, crazy at worst. [Edited on 08.06.2011 6:43 PM PDT]

Ok don't quote me on this as I do agree with your statement, the only thing is, the answers bungie gave us are a tad... unlikley. 1: Bungie stated that, although the invasion didnt happen until the 30th, a scouting force landed on reach between 24th-29th. ERROR: why then, didnt ONI allready flush every computers nav data, and why didnt they prepare all the apparently non-existant mac cannons and planet-side defences for battle? 2:The explanation for the lack of mac cannons is that they were in space, just not in the area that long night of solace took place! ERROR: wait, so their saying that reach only had defences on one side? 3: The explanation for cortana on reach is that the Cortana that the chief and the POA was given was a copy, the real Cortana was still on reach helping Dr halsey. When Noble team delivered the real cortana to the POA, the copy and the real one combined, thus making the cortana we know today. ERROR: The POA shouldnt have been planetside in the first place, see below. 4: The explanation for the pillar of autumn on reach is that the chief and his team were deployed on the circumference as the POA was making its way planetside for "repairs". The Chief was then picked back up on the POA's way off the planet. ERROR: So the POA landed on reach, got the rocket pod thingies attached to it, got its armour upgraded and got the rest of Cortana delivered to it in under an hour? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Anyway once again, please dont take my word on this but I heard a rumor that halo reach's story was originally going to follow the whole of RED (Johns team) and BLUE (planetside teams) but the story was changed halfway through production because Bungie believed retelling the story of Fall of Reach was boring for the hardcore fans who new the story front to back. My proof for this is in the video below where you can see from the 09 trailer that James (Spartan 005) is floating in space besides what appears to be the "circumference" [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC7zveMPWek&feature=player_detailpage#t=40s[/url] thankyou for reading my ridiculously long post. P.S: PAGE 117 WOOT WOOT! [Edited on 08.06.2011 6:29 PM PDT]

lol 117 pages to forum. [Edited on 08.06.2011 4:31 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evil BlackComet Books are not Cannon. As much as i love them. "Right of Way" so to speak is given to the games, because all other media is based off of the games.[/quote] Wrong, buster. Novels ARE CANON. Accept it, there is no official way to discard the book's status as being canon. Also, you copied/pasted from Fear thread is really outdated, is now discarded due to Bungie no longer handling Halo anymore, it is in hands of 343i also that guy isn't Bungie member, so it doesn't make it official. Also to everybody,: Remember, 343i (frankie) said that Halo universe, everything will fit together, it implies that 343i is more likely to make new canon policy or updating old canon policy. I'm guessing that update will be like this: Game canon = Book canon instead of game canon > book canon.

Gotcha

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Wait, if Coma's arguments hardly make sense... Then why does Grey make the comment that they are good counter-points. [/quote] they are because she caught me off guard when she first came here and i had to solidify my points.[/quote] Was simply making the 'point' when two people of the opposite viewpoints respect each other, it's usually not for no reason.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Wait, if Coma's arguments hardly make sense... Then why does Grey make the comment that they are good counter-points. [/quote] they are because she caught me off guard when she first came here and i had to solidify my points.

Wait, if Coma's arguments hardly make sense... Then why does Grey make the comment that they are good counter-points. Hell, the 'worst' description of Coma's statements I've seen from those disliking Reach was the fact we shouldn't be making these theories up. Regardless, as proven by this thread, the 'unexplainable' errors can be explained/reasoned. Might not be happy for everybody, but it's possible.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Juan Teran [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Juan Teran [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 first off shut the hell up. Since this is the first post i have ever seen by you don't try to call somebody that is pretty well known around here a "troll". how would she even be one? do you new comers even know what a troll is?[/quote]Well, then you should probably check my profile, because I've been posting in here for quite a while. Also, you should actually read my post rather than making me "shut the hell up", because I'm not calling her a "troll", but her contributions to the forum are highly questionable. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 1. Just because Reach is a flip-flop doesn't mean all the books are thrown out of the window. Coma has never said that and i would know because she would have said to me. So i am going to need a quote and a link since you claim to have seen her post that before.[/quote]I'm not even going to dig through all her posts just to prove that I'm right. All the stuff I wrote is true, hell, I don't even need to check her posts, she uses the same argument all the time. And people don't seem to get this right. Why is Reach a "flip-flop" to begin with? Bungie had the source material, how hard would it be to make a game based on the fall of Reach? It's that hard? Then make the game about another planet, a story that actually makes sense. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 2. Because He probably didn't die protecting her and that might be frankie saying[/quote]Check the interview, he immediately says that we may never know what happened to Jun. What does that mean? You tell me, good sir. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 A) we acknowledge some of the "errors" with the game and don't want to go any further with them.[/quote]No, you people assume there's a way to "fix it", and that's it. [/quote] 1. Again, first time i have seen you post in the universe forum. You didn't call her a troll yet if she didn't use proper English you would have? So you pretty much called her a troll. It isn't "questionable" it is called [b]balance[/b]; there are going to be people that hate reach and people that like it. coma likes it and offers a different view and counterpoint to what we see was flaws and even admits some of the clear ones. Just because she is on the defensive side doesn't make her different than anybody else other than anybody else. Her contributions are very well welcomed, if not I wouldn't be defending her [b]despite[/b] the fact we are nearly always on the opposite side of the fence. 2. You have been here for awhile yet you don't know how to use the search bar? It isn't that hard to find a post, and nothing is true without proof. Please don't tell me when you don't do your homework you tell your teacher "i did" and expect an "ok" back. Probably because bungie just wanted to knock the last halo game out of the way, regardless everybody is pretty much done arguing over this. I wonder why she says the same thing; we talked about this for [b]6[/b] months straight. I am also at the point where i am just searching for my old post's and quoting because we have been over stuff so many times. 3. Bungie says Jun is still alive, in which the Kid asks what happens to him and frankie retorts with that. Meaning "He is alive but we aren't going to elaborate on that", not hard to understand. "you people"? what do you mean by "you people"? I hate reach and think it is an abomination so i think you need to remember which forum you are new to because everybody here knows this. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evil BlackComet [quote][b][u]List of canonical material in ascending order[/u][/b] [i]This is a list of all published material from the Halo universe, ordered in terms of the influence each items has on the canon. The list is in ascending order so the higher the item the more influence it has over the Halo canon. If two items have competing or contradictory information regarding something in the Halo universe then a general rule of thumb would be to take as canon the information from the item that is highest in the list. 1. Halo Reach 2. Halo 3: ODST 3. Halo 3 4. Halo 2 5. Halo: CE 6. Halo Wars 7. Halo Legends 8. Halo: Evolutions 9. Halo: The Cole Protocol 10. Halo: Contact Harvest 11. Halo: Uprising 12. Halo: Ghosts of Onyx 13. Halo Graphic Novel 14. Halo: First Strike 15. Halo: The Flood 16. Halo: The Fall of Reach 17. Birth of a Spartan (Marketing) 18. ONI Candidate Assessment Program V5.02A (Marketing) 19. Superintendent Viral Campaign 20. Iris (Marketing) 21. I Love Bees [/i] [/quote][/quote] and where did you copy and paste that from, fear's thread? He himself said that is outdated months ago since 343 took over not to mention he isn't a bungie member. This could honestly be considered trolling [/quote]1. No, I also said that she strongly believes everything she writes, I don't see any trolling in that, but then again, it's a questionable contribution, as most of her arguments defending Reach barely make sense. And it actually pissed me off that you think that my argument is inferior to hers because I don't post as often as her. So should I make 20 threads a day like ImmortalJoshua just to get some respect? And yes, it's normal to find people who defend the game, as you call it, "balance". But all the canon mistakes have been properly analyzed, and, as the title implies, they are unexplainable mistakes in the Halo canon. Know the meaning of "UNEXPLAINABLE"? There's nothing in the novels, games, etc., that can solve all these problems. 2. Again, you are judging me just because I don't constantly post in here. That's not fair, my opinion is just as valid as any other Bungie member opinion. If you actually believe that Coma's opinion is superior to mine, stop wasting my time, you are already wrong. 3. Bungie no longer owns the Halo Universe, 343i does. And why wouldn't they elaborate in Jun's fate? I mean, Halsey appears in "Halo: First Strike", but Jun doesn't. The only thing I can think of is that, either nothing in Reach makes sense and 343i won't even bother explaining, or Jun is a ghost. Wait... Spartans never die... OH... MY... GOD! I was wrong all this time, Jun is actually a ghost. I'm so sorry for wasting your time, I was completely wrong.[/quote] 1. who doesn't strongly believe in what they write? That is the point of writing your opinion and point of view. So if you don't see any trolling then why did you pretty much call her a troll in your second post? Most of them actually do, hence why this thread was dead until you newcomers came because we reach a stalemate. Your posts are "inferior" because you are impulsive and not making any sense whatsoever. Just because she has a different viewpoint doesn't make her a troll. 2. Last time i checked caboose made the thread not coma. and the errors are "explained" for the most part it is the way they are. A) No covenant fleet should have been able to get in "undetected". Oh this fleet can completely mask itself. B) MAC stations not being shown due to importance of the battle. Oh they could be there but you wouldn't see them anyway C)NOBLE team has mark v. Because they are special; "like head hunters aren't"? They have "explanations" it is just that they are shoddy for the majority part. 2. i am judging you because you brought up how "i have seen your posts" as if it is suppose to be a big deal when i haven't seen any of yours. And yes i will pick coma's contributions and debates over anything you post until you actually do something rather than "o i don't like/understand your posts so you are a troll". 3. Jun is a pointless character not to mention nothing could come out of it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evil BlackComet ok so you have obviously read FEARs thread so, whatever, you guys can continue being stubborn about this. by the way, i see your posts on the forum, saying you want to move it to 343's website. so obviously it has value, so don't tell me its out of date therefore irrelevant, because if it wasn't relevant why do you want it on 343's forums?[/quote] did you even look at the date for my saying that? I didn't know the 343 forums were filled with ignorance then. That was months ago. It is out of date and irrelevant, it is just a trophy of his personal work now.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Juan Teran [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 first off shut the hell up. Since this is the first post i have ever seen by you don't try to call somebody that is pretty well known around here a "troll". how would she even be one? do you new comers even know what a troll is?[/quote]Well, then you should probably check my profile, because I've been posting in here for quite a while. Also, you should actually read my post rather than making me "shut the hell up", because I'm not calling her a "troll", but her contributions to the forum are highly questionable. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 1. Just because Reach is a flip-flop doesn't mean all the books are thrown out of the window. Coma has never said that and i would know because she would have said to me. So i am going to need a quote and a link since you claim to have seen her post that before.[/quote]I'm not even going to dig through all her posts just to prove that I'm right. All the stuff I wrote is true, hell, I don't even need to check her posts, she uses the same argument all the time. And people don't seem to get this right. Why is Reach a "flip-flop" to begin with? Bungie had the source material, how hard would it be to make a game based on the fall of Reach? It's that hard? Then make the game about another planet, a story that actually makes sense. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 2. Because He probably didn't die protecting her and that might be frankie saying[/quote]Check the interview, he immediately says that we may never know what happened to Jun. What does that mean? You tell me, good sir. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 A) we acknowledge some of the "errors" with the game and don't want to go any further with them.[/quote]No, you people assume there's a way to "fix it", and that's it. [/quote] 1. Again, first time i have seen you post in the universe forum. You didn't call her a troll yet if she didn't use proper English you would have? So you pretty much called her a troll. It isn't "questionable" it is called [b]balance[/b]; there are going to be people that hate reach and people that like it. coma likes it and offers a different view and counterpoint to what we see was flaws and even admits some of the clear ones. Just because she is on the defensive side doesn't make her different than anybody else other than anybody else. Her contributions are very well welcomed, if not I wouldn't be defending her [b]despite[/b] the fact we are nearly always on the opposite side of the fence. 2. You have been here for awhile yet you don't know how to use the search bar? It isn't that hard to find a post, and nothing is true without proof. Please don't tell me when you don't do your homework you tell your teacher "i did" and expect an "ok" back. Probably because bungie just wanted to knock the last halo game out of the way, regardless everybody is pretty much done arguing over this. I wonder why she says the same thing; we talked about this for [b]6[/b] months straight. I am also at the point where i am just searching for my old post's and quoting because we have been over stuff so many times. 3. Bungie says Jun is still alive, in which the Kid asks what happens to him and frankie retorts with that. Meaning "He is alive but we aren't going to elaborate on that", not hard to understand. "you people"? what do you mean by "you people"? I hate reach and think it is an abomination so i think you need to remember which forum you are new to because everybody here knows this. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evil BlackComet [quote][b][u]List of canonical material in ascending order[/u][/b] [i]This is a list of all published material from the Halo universe, ordered in terms of the influence each items has on the canon. The list is in ascending order so the higher the item the more influence it has over the Halo canon. If two items have competing or contradictory information regarding something in the Halo universe then a general rule of thumb would be to take as canon the information from the item that is highest in the list. 1. Halo Reach 2. Halo 3: ODST 3. Halo 3 4. Halo 2 5. Halo: CE 6. Halo Wars 7. Halo Legends 8. Halo: Evolutions 9. Halo: The Cole Protocol 10. Halo: Contact Harvest 11. Halo: Uprising 12. Halo: Ghosts of Onyx 13. Halo Graphic Novel 14. Halo: First Strike 15. Halo: The Flood 16. Halo: The Fall of Reach 17. Birth of a Spartan (Marketing) 18. ONI Candidate Assessment Program V5.02A (Marketing) 19. Superintendent Viral Campaign 20. Iris (Marketing) 21. I Love Bees [/i] [/quote][/quote] and where did you copy and paste that from, fear's thread? He himself said that is outdated months ago since 343 took over not to mention he isn't a bungie member. This could honestly be considered trolling [/quote]1. No, I also said that she strongly believes everything she writes, I don't see any trolling in that, but then again, it's a questionable contribution, as most of her arguments defending Reach barely make sense. And it actually pissed me off that you think that my argument is inferior to hers because I don't post as often as her. So should I make 20 threads a day like ImmortalJoshua just to get some respect? And yes, it's normal to find people who defend the game, as you call it, "balance". But all the canon mistakes have been properly analyzed, and, as the title implies, they are unexplainable mistakes in the Halo canon. Know the meaning of "UNEXPLAINABLE"? There's nothing in the novels, games, etc., that can solve all these problems. 2. Again, you are judging me just because I don't constantly post in here. That's not fair, my opinion is just as valid as any other Bungie member opinion. If you actually believe that Coma's opinion is superior to mine, stop wasting my time, you are already wrong. 3. Bungie no longer owns the Halo Universe, 343i does. And why wouldn't they elaborate in Jun's fate? I mean, Halsey appears in "Halo: First Strike", but Jun doesn't. The only thing I can think of is that, either nothing in Reach makes sense and 343i won't even bother explaining, or Jun is a ghost. Wait... Spartans never die... OH... MY... GOD! I was wrong all this time, Jun is actually a ghost. I'm so sorry for wasting your time, I was completely wrong.

ok so you have obviously read FEARs thread so, whatever, you guys can continue being stubborn about this. by the way, i see your posts on the forum, saying you want to move it to 343's website. so obviously it has value, so don't tell me its out of date therefore irrelevant, because if it wasn't relevant why do you want it on 343's forums?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Juan Teran [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 first off shut the hell up. Since this is the first post i have ever seen by you don't try to call somebody that is pretty well known around here a "troll". how would she even be one? do you new comers even know what a troll is?[/quote]Well, then you should probably check my profile, because I've been posting in here for quite a while. Also, you should actually read my post rather than making me "shut the hell up", because I'm not calling her a "troll", but her contributions to the forum are highly questionable. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 1. Just because Reach is a flip-flop doesn't mean all the books are thrown out of the window. Coma has never said that and i would know because she would have said to me. So i am going to need a quote and a link since you claim to have seen her post that before.[/quote]I'm not even going to dig through all her posts just to prove that I'm right. All the stuff I wrote is true, hell, I don't even need to check her posts, she uses the same argument all the time. And people don't seem to get this right. Why is Reach a "flip-flop" to begin with? Bungie had the source material, how hard would it be to make a game based on the fall of Reach? It's that hard? Then make the game about another planet, a story that actually makes sense. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 2. Because He probably didn't die protecting her and that might be frankie saying[/quote]Check the interview, he immediately says that we may never know what happened to Jun. What does that mean? You tell me, good sir. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 A) we acknowledge some of the "errors" with the game and don't want to go any further with them.[/quote]No, you people assume there's a way to "fix it", and that's it. [/quote] 1. Again, first time i have seen you post in the universe forum. You didn't call her a troll yet if she didn't use proper English you would have? So you pretty much called her a troll. It isn't "questionable" it is called [b]balance[/b]; there are going to be people that hate reach and people that like it. coma likes it and offers a different view and counterpoint to what we see was flaws and even admits some of the clear ones. Just because she is on the defensive side doesn't make her different than anybody else other than anybody else. Her contributions are very well welcomed, if not I wouldn't be defending her [b]despite[/b] the fact we are nearly always on the opposite side of the fence. 2. You have been here for awhile yet you don't know how to use the search bar? It isn't that hard to find a post, and nothing is true without proof. Please don't tell me when you don't do your homework you tell your teacher "i did" and expect an "ok" back. Probably because bungie just wanted to knock the last halo game out of the way, regardless everybody is pretty much done arguing over this. I wonder why she says the same thing; we talked about this for [b]6[/b] months straight. I am also at the point where i am just searching for my old post's and quoting because we have been over stuff so many times. 3. Bungie says Jun is still alive, in which the Kid asks what happens to him and frankie retorts with that. Meaning "He is alive but we aren't going to elaborate on that", not hard to understand. "you people"? what do you mean by "you people"? I hate reach and think it is an abomination so i think you need to remember which forum you are new to because everybody here knows this. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evil BlackComet [quote][b][u]List of canonical material in ascending order[/u][/b] [i]This is a list of all published material from the Halo universe, ordered in terms of the influence each items has on the canon. The list is in ascending order so the higher the item the more influence it has over the Halo canon. If two items have competing or contradictory information regarding something in the Halo universe then a general rule of thumb would be to take as canon the information from the item that is highest in the list. 1. Halo Reach 2. Halo 3: ODST 3. Halo 3 4. Halo 2 5. Halo: CE 6. Halo Wars 7. Halo Legends 8. Halo: Evolutions 9. Halo: The Cole Protocol 10. Halo: Contact Harvest 11. Halo: Uprising 12. Halo: Ghosts of Onyx 13. Halo Graphic Novel 14. Halo: First Strike 15. Halo: The Flood 16. Halo: The Fall of Reach 17. Birth of a Spartan (Marketing) 18. ONI Candidate Assessment Program V5.02A (Marketing) 19. Superintendent Viral Campaign 20. Iris (Marketing) 21. I Love Bees [/i] [/quote][/quote] and where did you copy and paste that from, fear's thread? He himself said that is outdated months ago since 343 took over not to mention he isn't a bungie member. This could honestly be considered trolling

[quote][b][u]List of canonical material in ascending order[/u][/b] [i]This is a list of all published material from the Halo universe, ordered in terms of the influence each items has on the canon. The list is in ascending order so the higher the item the more influence it has over the Halo canon. If two items have competing or contradictory information regarding something in the Halo universe then a general rule of thumb would be to take as canon the information from the item that is highest in the list. 1. Halo Reach 2. Halo 3: ODST 3. Halo 3 4. Halo 2 5. Halo: CE 6. Halo Wars 7. Halo Legends 8. Halo: Evolutions 9. Halo: The Cole Protocol 10. Halo: Contact Harvest 11. Halo: Uprising 12. Halo: Ghosts of Onyx 13. Halo Graphic Novel 14. Halo: First Strike 15. Halo: The Flood 16. Halo: The Fall of Reach 17. Birth of a Spartan (Marketing) 18. ONI Candidate Assessment Program V5.02A (Marketing) 19. Superintendent Viral Campaign 20. Iris (Marketing) 21. I Love Bees [/i] [/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 first off shut the hell up. Since this is the first post i have ever seen by you don't try to call somebody that is pretty well known around here a "troll". how would she even be one? do you new comers even know what a troll is?[/quote]Well, then you should probably check my profile, because I've been posting in here for quite a while. Also, you should actually read my post rather than making me "shut the hell up", because I'm not calling her a "troll", but her contributions to the forum are highly questionable. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 1. Just because Reach is a flip-flop doesn't mean all the books are thrown out of the window. Coma has never said that and i would know because she would have said to me. So i am going to need a quote and a link since you claim to have seen her post that before.[/quote]I'm not even going to dig through all her posts just to prove that I'm right. All the stuff I wrote is true, hell, I don't even need to check her posts, she uses the same argument all the time. And people don't seem to get this right. Why is Reach a "flip-flop" to begin with? Bungie had the source material, how hard would it be to make a game based on the fall of Reach? It's that hard? Then make the game about another planet, a story that actually makes sense. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 2. Because He probably didn't die protecting her and that might be frankie saying[/quote]Check the interview, he immediately says that we may never know what happened to Jun. What does that mean? You tell me, good sir. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 A) we acknowledge some of the "errors" with the game and don't want to go any further with them.[/quote]No, you people assume there's a way to "fix it", and that's it.