[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General Heed But why is the bulkiness consistent between these games? Why don't other games where such bulkiness would also be needed have the same style of bulkiness? This can only mean that the style of bulkiness these games use is affected by the game engine unless all these game studios are hiring the same artists for their games. [/quote]If a game's art style says that their character ought to be bulky, they are. Like we said before, for the most part Master Chief is a pretty bulky character in the Halo series. That's because he's that way by design. Inside the games you're calling out for having bulky characters there are other characters that [i]aren't[/i] bulky. For instance, the females in Gears aren't all that bulky compared to the men. Definitely on parts of the body where there is no armor. Also, the humans in ME3, as DusK pointed out, look like tooth picks.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dr Syx [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General Heed I did say that I wasn't sure if it was just a design choice or not. I just felt it was more than a coincedence that different developers using the same engine would produce similar character models. I've only seen those kinds of models in Unreal games. Games that use other engines like CryEngine, Source Engine, iD Tech, IW 4.0, Halo Engine, and so on. Here's a comparison of the past 3 Unreal engines. [url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/Unreal_Engine_Comparison.jpg[/url] As you can see, the characters have always been a bit bulky and the bulky armor style from that Unreal Engine 3 character also appears in Gears of War and Mass Effect. The game Army of Two also has similar bulky features. Section 8 Prejudice also has the same armor style as Gears of War and Unreal Tournament. These games are all made by completely different game studios. I highly doubt all of their artists would design the same armro style as many other Unreal games.[/quote]You keep listing games that have characters that are [i]meant[/i] to be bulky. They have heavy armored suits. In fact, when you consider what kind of equipment they have on, the models in the previous engines are [i]way[/i] too skinny. Imagine him without the armor on in those images and you'll see where I'm coming from. [quote]That's why I believe it's more than just a coincedence and to get characters to look normal size in Unreal, you have to spend extra time and effort in order to make them look right. I'm guessing a lot of game studios feel it's not important enough to invest that extra time to get every single character to look normal so they just use some kind of default layout for the characters.[/quote]Do you know how to build models? It doesn't sound too much like you do to me, to be honest. It doesn't take hard work to make a smaller model than it does to make a "bulky" one. It doesn't matter what engine it's on. [quote]Again, it could really just be a design choice by all these game developers to have all their character bodies look the same in terms of shape. But the fact that I never see this same design choice appear in games using other game engines suggests that it probably wasn't a design choice but rather a limitation that takes a awhile to overcome. [/quote] or it could be that Unreal Engine is used most out of the rest of the engines we're comparing with. That Unreal Engine is the most widely used for games that would have bulky characters in the first place for some reason. Also, what DusK said:[quote]You've completely ignored the fact that every single human model in ME 1-3 is like a twig compared to the Master Chief.[/quote][/quote] But why is the bulkiness consistent between these games? Why don't other games where such bulkiness would also be needed have the same style of bulkiness? This can only mean that the style of bulkiness these games use is affected by the game engine unless all these game studios are hiring the same artists for their games.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General Heed I did say that I wasn't sure if it was just a design choice or not. I just felt it was more than a coincedence that different developers using the same engine would produce similar character models. I've only seen those kinds of models in Unreal games. Games that use other engines like CryEngine, Source Engine, iD Tech, IW 4.0, Halo Engine, and so on. Here's a comparison of the past 3 Unreal engines. [url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/Unreal_Engine_Comparison.jpg[/url] As you can see, the characters have always been a bit bulky and the bulky armor style from that Unreal Engine 3 character also appears in Gears of War and Mass Effect. The game Army of Two also has similar bulky features. Section 8 Prejudice also has the same armor style as Gears of War and Unreal Tournament. These games are all made by completely different game studios. I highly doubt all of their artists would design the same armro style as many other Unreal games.[/quote]You keep listing games that have characters that are [i]meant[/i] to be bulky. They have heavy armored suits. In fact, when you consider what kind of equipment they have on, the models in the previous engines are [i]way[/i] too skinny. Imagine him without the armor on in those images and you'll see where I'm coming from. [quote]That's why I believe it's more than just a coincedence and to get characters to look normal size in Unreal, you have to spend extra time and effort in order to make them look right. I'm guessing a lot of game studios feel it's not important enough to invest that extra time to get every single character to look normal so they just use some kind of default layout for the characters.[/quote]Do you know how to build models? It doesn't sound too much like you do to me, to be honest. It doesn't take hard work to make a smaller model than it does to make a "bulky" one. It doesn't matter what engine it's on. [quote]Again, it could really just be a design choice by all these game developers to have all their character bodies look the same in terms of shape. But the fact that I never see this same design choice appear in games using other game engines suggests that it probably wasn't a design choice but rather a limitation that takes a awhile to overcome. [/quote] or it could be that Unreal Engine is used most out of the rest of the engines we're comparing with. That Unreal Engine is the most widely used for games that would have bulky characters in the first place for some reason. Also, what DusK said:[quote]You've completely ignored the fact that every single human model in ME 1-3 is like a twig compared to the Master Chief.[/quote] [Edited on 03.29.2012 9:12 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dr Syx [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General Heed Again, I'll bring up Garrus from Mass Effect 1-3 and by extension any Turrians, any Krogans, any Protheans (some collectors). And going back to Gears of War, that's the best example where objects and characters seem to be a bit bulkier than usual. [/quote]Again I'll bring up that the engine really has nothing to do with this and it's more on the designers of the games themselves. There are [i]many[/i] examples of characters that are not bulky in the least on Unreal Engine 3. Also, I'd like to point out that everything your mentioning to be bulky is meant to be that way. Gears of War has tons of extremely muscular men in large armored suits. The varying races you mentioned for Mass Effect or pretty much all meant to be bulky in size. It wouldn't have mattered what engine they were on, they would have looked the same in that respect. It's a bit silly to judge Unreal Engine 4 by what Unreal Engine 3 was like. Look at the differences between Unreal Engine 1, 2, and 3 to see why I say that.[/quote] I did say that I wasn't sure if it was just a design choice or not. I just felt it was more than a coincedence that different developers using the same engine would produce similar character models. I've only seen those kinds of models in Unreal games. Games that use other engines like CryEngine, Source Engine, iD Tech, IW 4.0, Halo Engine, and so on. Here's a comparison of the past 3 Unreal engines. [url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/Unreal_Engine_Comparison.jpg[/url] As you can see, the characters have always been a bit bulky and the bulky armor style from that Unreal Engine 3 character also appears in Gears of War and Mass Effect. The game Army of Two also has similar bulky features. Section 8 Prejudice also has the same armor style as Gears of War and Unreal Tournament. These games are all made by completely different game studios. I highly doubt all of their artists would design the same armro style as many other Unreal games. That's why I believe it's more than just a coincedence and to get characters to look normal size in Unreal, you have to spend extra time and effort in order to make them look right. I'm guessing a lot of game studios feel it's not important enough to invest that extra time to get every single character to look normal so they just use some kind of default layout for the characters. Again, it could really just be a design choice by all these game developers to have all their character bodies look the same in terms of shape. But the fact that I never see this same design choice appear in games using other game engines suggests that it probably wasn't a design choice but rather a limitation that takes a awhile to overcome.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General Heed Again, I'll bring up Garrus from Mass Effect 1-3 and by extension any Turrians, any Krogans, any Protheans (some collectors). And going back to Gears of War, that's the best example where objects and characters seem to be a bit bulkier than usual. [/quote] I hope you realize that every single example you gave there is a design choice. You've completely ignored the fact that every single human model in ME 1-3 is like a twig compared the the Master Chief.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General Heed Again, I'll bring up Garrus from Mass Effect 1-3 and by extension any Turrians, any Krogans, any Protheans (some collectors). And going back to Gears of War, that's the best example where objects and characters seem to be a bit bulkier than usual. [/quote]Again I'll bring up that the engine really has nothing to do with this and it's more on the designers of the games themselves. There are [i]many[/i] examples of characters that are not bulky in the least on Unreal Engine 3. Also, I'd like to point out that everything your mentioning to be bulky is meant to be that way. Gears of War has tons of extremely muscular men in large armored suits. The varying races you mentioned for Mass Effect or pretty much all meant to be bulky in size. It wouldn't have mattered what engine they were on, they would have looked the same in that respect. It's a bit silly to judge Unreal Engine 4 by what Unreal Engine 3 was like. Look at the differences between Unreal Engine 1, 2, and 3 to see why I say that. [Edited on 03.29.2012 5:32 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DusK [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General Heed Mass Effect 1-3[/quote] Are you on crack? [quote]I think standard character size should be what we see in either Halo[/quote] Well, that's an extravagant "yes".[/quote] Again, I'll bring up Garrus from Mass Effect 1-3 and by extension any Turrians, any Krogans, any Protheans (some collectors). And going back to Gears of War, that's the best example where objects and characters seem to be a bit bulkier than usual.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DusK It's really, [i]really[/i] good, but extremely underpopulated.[/quote]I feel that it's overall a great game. It's just that I don't seem to like it as much as I do Unreal Tournament 2004. The larger hit boxes/graphical style are my main complaints towards the game. Pretty much everything else is spot on in the Black Edition. [Edited on 03.29.2012 4:25 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Super PolarBear Do any of you like UT3? I noticed that it doesn't really get brought up around here when talking about PC FPS's, so I was just curious about how the latest installment in the series is.[/quote] It's really, [i]really[/i] good, but extremely underpopulated.

Do any of you like UT3? I noticed that it doesn't really get brought up around here when talking about PC FPS's, so I was just curious about how the latest installment in the series is.

[url=http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/542922988036939339/3E53AEA020E2743FDBD19C273198097DEC19F67E/]Sapphire[/url] If anything, she is reminiscent of that Lindsay Lohan photo you linked earlier... Definitely when you consider she has armor on. [Edited on 03.29.2012 8:17 AM PDT]

Dude, look how bulky Sapphire looks in that video. I mean, she's at least 110 pounds. That's way too big. We need characters that are 7 feet tall and weigh over 1,000 pounds with armor. Them's the right dimensions right thur.

I don't really see how the engine has anything to do with how bulky models are... There are games that do not, by any means, have bulky models and they run on Unreal Engine 3 so that proves it's not the engine's fault. I don't even know where you get the idea for that... Also, saying that the past Unreal games had bulky models as well is laughable. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3trM3X12F8g]Do these look at all bulky to you?[/url] Anyway, this is going to be a new engine. Coming out judging Unreal Engine 4 for Unreal Engine 3's faults when you know absolutely nothing about 4 is absurd.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General Heed Mass Effect 1-3[/quote] Are you on crack? [quote]I think standard character size should be what we see in either Halo[/quote] Well, that's an extravagant "yes".

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DusK Yeah, because characters in Mirror's Edge, Mass Effect 1-3, APB Reloaded, Arkham Asylum and City, Borderlands, Silent Hill: Downpour, TERA Online, and Rainbow 6 Vegas 2, all nothing but meaty folk.[/quote] I said tends to be. I never said ALL Unreal Engine games made the characters look bulky. The games where the characters do look very buly are Gears of War 1-3, Mass Effect 1-3, Unreal Tournament, as well as even older games that use Unreal Engine. I think too many Unreal Games share these bulky characters to the point where it can't be a design choice by the developers. My guess is that to make characters look normal, they have to put in a lot of extra effort. Otherwise, in most cases, they just give the characters the same kind of bulky armor. Have you noticed that Marcus Fenix and Garrus share the same kind of bulky style armor that curves around the back? Two different games, two different developers, one game engine. This is true of many other Unreal Engine games. And it's not just the characters. Simple objects such as hospital beds and cars are extremely bulky. The first time I noticed this was in Gears of War and as I started playing more Mass Effect games, it became more prevelant. I think standard character size should be what we see in either Halo or Call of Duty. Not the giant bulky peices of armor or unrealistically muscular characters we find in several Unreal Engine games. [Edited on 03.28.2012 9:24 PM PDT]

[url=http://www.gotarant.com/media/rants/skinny.jpg]This is a normal body build according to General Heed.[/url]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DusK Yeah, because characters in Mirror's Edge, Mass Effect 1-3, APB Reloaded, Arkham Asylum and City, Borderlands, Silent Hill: Downpour, TERA Online, and Rainbow 6 Vegas 2, all nothing but meaty folk.[/quote] [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYRm4-AYuiI&feature=related]Oooh...[/url]

Yeah, because characters in Mirror's Edge, Mass Effect 1-3, APB Reloaded, Arkham Asylum and City, Borderlands, Silent Hill: Downpour, TERA Online, and Rainbow 6 Vegas 2, all nothing but meaty folk.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dr Syx [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General Heed [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BouncedMr happy Yeah, I know you don't need to break into NASA to enjoy PC gaming, it just kinda sucks when you can't look at the beauty of the Source engine without burning your house down.[/quote] The full potential of the Source Engine is nothing compared to that of the CryEngine or Unreal Engine. You don't see many people using the Source Engine for benchmarking. And with the Unreal Engine, if you saw the "Samaritan Demo" of the newest version of Unreal Engine, it took 3 high end nVidia GeForce GTX graphics in SLI to be able to render the game in real-time. No source engine game will ever require the full power of three high end graphics cards. [/quote]Speaking of Unreal Engine, I can't wait to see some Unreal Engine 4 stuff... Really hoping they're continuing tradition and releasing a new Unreal game with it...[/quote] The one thing I noticed and dislike about almost every Unreal Engine game is that the engine makes character models and other objects very bulky and meaty. I'm not sure why, but I'm pretty sure it's not a design choice made by every single game developer that uses Unreal and it's been that way for a long time. I hope in Unreal 4 they make sure that characters and objects are not extremely and unnaturally bulky.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DusK Salivating now.[/quote]If that gets you salivating, Epic Games has been quoted as saying the current console generation couldn't possibly play anything developed on this engine. [i]That[/i] gets my PC gamer -blam!- in an upright position.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dr Syx Speaking of Unreal Engine, I can't wait to see some Unreal Engine 4 stuff... Really hoping they're continuing tradition and releasing a new Unreal game with it...[/quote] Salivating now.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General Heed [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BouncedMr happy Yeah, I know you don't need to break into NASA to enjoy PC gaming, it just kinda sucks when you can't look at the beauty of the Source engine without burning your house down.[/quote] The full potential of the Source Engine is nothing compared to that of the CryEngine or Unreal Engine. You don't see many people using the Source Engine for benchmarking. And with the Unreal Engine, if you saw the "Samaritan Demo" of the newest version of Unreal Engine, it took 3 high end nVidia GeForce GTX graphics in SLI to be able to render the game in real-time. No source engine game will ever require the full power of three high end graphics cards. [/quote]Speaking of Unreal Engine, I can't wait to see some Unreal Engine 4 stuff... Really hoping they're continuing tradition and releasing a new Unreal game with it...

The previous link I posted is broken. Here's the new one: [url=http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst41891_The-Unofficial-Halo-3-PC-Thread.aspx]The Unofficial Halo 3 PC Thread[/url]

haha what the hell is going on

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BouncedMr happy Yeah, I know you don't need to break into NASA to enjoy PC gaming, it just kinda sucks when you can't look at the beauty of the Source engine without burning your house down.[/quote] The full potential of the Source Engine is nothing compared to that of the CryEngine or Unreal Engine. You don't see many people using the Source Engine for benchmarking. And with the Unreal Engine, if you saw the "Samaritan Demo" of the newest version of Unreal Engine, it took 3 high end nVidia GeForce GTX graphics in SLI to be able to render the game in real-time. No source engine game will ever require the full power of three high end graphics cards.

We need YOU: [url]http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst65732_Halo-3-To-PC.aspx[/url] :D [Edited on 03.27.2012 11:17 AM PDT]