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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by zxionisus: 11/18/2018 2:38:11 AM
56

The 7 Pillars of Design

I was in the process of reforming a clan from the ashes of my old one and came across this article when looking for a clan name: [url=https://www.polygon.com/2013/2/17/3993058/destiny-bungie-first-look-preview]Polygon: Destiny: Bungie's Brave New Worlds[/url]. It's an old article from February 2013, written with contributions from Activision Publishing CEO, Eric Hirshberg, Bungie co-founder, Jason Jones, and former Bungie writer/design director, Joe Staten. It's a great article. The article covered, in part, what was essentially Bungie's mission statement for Destiny. They called it the "Seven Pillars of Design", and it reads as follows: [b]Pillar 1:[/b] A world players want to be in. "This is a question players ask themselves," Jason Jones says when approaching a new universe. "‘Do I want to be in this world? Is it cool? Do I want to stay here?’ That led us to create a world full of mystery that people can explore." [b]Pillar 2:[/b] A bunch of fun things to do. Bungie calls Destiny "a sandbox with a lot of tools" that puts players in situations "where they can be successful." Jones says Bungie has been deliberate about creating a broad range of activities for players to enjoy in groups or alone, in casual or intense scenarios. [b]Pillar 3:[/b] Rewards players care about. "Imagine you could spend an hour and accomplish something," Jones says. "We have a lot of great things [in Destiny] to find, earn and make. Everything you do generates these rewards to customize your character." [b]Pillar 4:[/b] A new experience every night. Bungie wants players to have a different experience every time they play, planning rare, time-limited and emergent activities. Jones hopes that players will sign on for a game of Destiny, but get distracted by the variety of content and activities within. [b]Pillar 5:[/b] Shared with other people. "Everything that’s fun to do is more fun with other people," Jones says. "Even if you do play solo — which is a totally valid way to play — you’re going to see other people in your game." [b]Pillar 6:[/b] Enjoyable by all skill levels. "We want everybody who wants to play, to play. If you have the basic coordination to play a shooter," Bungie says, you can play Destiny. [b]Pillar 7:[/b] Enjoyable by the tired, impatient and distracted. Bungie believes that players don’t play games to "work hard, read or go the internet to figure out our bullshit." The core experience, Jones says, has to be delivered as simply and easily as possible. And that pillar led Bungie to "throw out a bunch of dearly-held ideas." ________________ I was a big Destiny fan - still am. I had a great group of guys and gals that I played regularly with. We met up on Tuesday reset day and Friday Xur day. We played on weekends as well. Honestly, we played too much. That said, I don't live life with regret. I chose to play as much as I did, because I liked it. I met good people and had great fun. By House of Wolves, I believe Destiny had achieved good success on all 7 pillars. Sure we were disappointed when a new raid didn't drop and we got the Prison of Elders, but it was still good fun. I'd be lying if I didn't say burning Skolas in less than 30 seconds in the first couple weeks with a void sniper with final round wasn't a blast. We still found reasons to play (Pillar 2). With D2, I feel like Bungie changed the mission significantly. I still play about once a week, sometimes less. I don't have clanmates anymore. Pillars 2, 3, 4 and 5 are broken. I'm hopeful though, that come September, they will be repaired and we will be back at it again, even if not as often. If you want some feels, go back through BNET "news", starting at around January 2013, and especially into September 2014, when Destiny came out in force. The PR game was for real. Deej was even rockin' the smoking jacket. I didn't get the game until December 2014 (Christmas Noob), but when I did get it, I was caught up in the spectacle. My first VOG raid happened (I think) in January, when a guardian in the tower sent me a polite, simple invite, "Wanna raid?" Since then, I was hooked. I want to enjoy Destiny 2 like I used to enjoy Destiny 1. I think May is a good step in that direction. That said, I'm still a little bitter about D2 starting us from scratch. It's like reading a great novel with characters you fall in love with and then finding out the sequel killed them all off, charged you more to get them back, and then went silent for several months except to say, "we are listening". Let's be critical, but let's be polite. I want Bungie to succeed - if they do, I do. And, I'd like to see Deej back in the smoking jacket, repping the brand. If he is, it's because we're happy with the product they're pushing. I'd like that. And P.S. - if you're looking for a PS4 clan, just ask.
English
#Deej #destiny2

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  • Good read. Bungle (as I now refer to them) has no Code, no spine and no stones. And that's as civil as it gets.

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  • And where is Jason Jones now?

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    • The seven pillars are non cannon

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      • Bungie's 7 piles of horse shit is more like it. 1. "If you can see it you can go there" 2. "Xur is Random" 3. "0.004%" 4. "The last thing we wanted was for your to look at your favorite gun..." 5. "XP Throttling" 6. "Eververse was never intended to be a substitute for end game..." 7. "So while we really wanted to get Nightfall Strike Unique Weapons into your hands next week to coincide with Nightfall Scoring...." Between the lies and their attitude towards cheating, Bungie makes it pretty clear what their company's values really are.

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        • Edited by Demon_XXVII: 4/26/2018 1:31:50 PM
          The Bungie of that article (2013) and of the 10 years prior, imagining, writing, creating Destiny, are gone .....the writers, the creative talent, the dedicated devs ....all gone (in the case of Staten and O'Donnell - pushed) Old Bungie (with their creativity/depth/details/intracacy) is no more... ([i]I could tell you a time of when Bungie used great writers, of including a great lore with detail, depth and imagination.....but lately, those narratives have stopped.[/i] Destiny 1 was sold on the back of Halo CE-Reach (Old Bungie) Then you see who they hire to write D2 https://www.gamesradar.com/destinys-new-writer-proves-bungie-finally-taking-its-story-seriously/ Hiring the Lead Writer for MassEffect: Andromeda (now defunct/dismantled Bioware Montreal) - that was an absolute disaster of a game (as was the Halo 4 story, another of his disastrous stories - as senior writer) WTF made BNG think he was a deep lake of creativity and detail ... (We all now know D2 is 1 mile wide and 1cm deep Then there's Activision (with their world class hype train), all about milking as much cash out of a franchise, rehashing, reselling, and creating double/triple profit 'content' (D2 is an absolute shambles of a release - but sold 7million copies on good faith & reputation) Look at Curse of Osiris - Marketing and hype (CoO stream) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jQQ_U5MFAe0 7mins 26 The music from the Templar's Well encounter was playing in the CoO stream. They (New Bungie) knew exactly what they were doing - exactly how that place and that music would make D1/VoG veterans feel, and how alluring it would look & sound to new players. Do you remember your first time in the Vault?- It was done intentionally, to make us give a damn Look what we got - The Finite Corridor, and a cheap nasty caricature version of the the Legend that was Osiris... D2 & DLC-1 were a shambles (And more D1 gear returning as pale imitations of those once great weapons, Allowing them an easy ride (to the bank) - New Bungie really are the Washington ReSkins... Paying out for DLC to gain things we already have... It's just rewarding their ineptitude, inadequacy, failure and bad practice Destiny 2 (the bait/switch) is what New Bungie will be remembered for (not looking too promising for D3)

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          • This describes my experience almost perfectly. The only difference is I saw a commercial in early September 2014 during a NFL game break and immediately hopped on the Xbox store and ordered. What a blast I had! 3000+ hours of fun. D2 took all of that experience and stepped on it, shmushed it all up, reinvented it, and marketed it back to me. I bought it, quit playing after 3 weeks, and got a refund. The May update looks like a step in the right direction and maybe this fall the game I loved will return.

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          • Staten RIP

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          • Those pillars no longer exist within bungie... And interestingly enough neither do the people that came up with them lol. Coincidence? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ On a side note, earlier today i was thinking how in awe I was over everything when i first started playing d1, and now.. That feeling just simply doesnt exist for d2

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            • Well it’s unfortunate that gaming has evolved in such a way that is rewarding poor design and shells of games! Idk it seems like the passion and joy of creating something you are truly proud of to share with others, is being replaced with money and incentives to make more money! Maybe all of the Art that went into game design is being pushed away by people who just care about their paycheck and not the work they do?

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            • I was in a Destiny 1 & 2 clan consisting of many longtime gamer friends, which went on to completely die. I also stopped playing for a few months. Respectfully, I then got tired of playing the games I fell back on (Overwatch, Battlefield/Battlefront,etc.), and I decided to play Destiny 2 and complete Curse of Osiris. It wasn't the best DLC by far, but I remembered why I played Destiny; it just feels good. But I was bored after a while and went back and forth to other games. After awhile, I decided to give up on my longtime clan and joined a new one. Since that day, Destiny 2 is the only game I play- with the exception of a few games on the Switch. I gained many new gamer friends all over US, Canada, and Europe. It began to feel like I never left my old clan. Our clan keeps growing and is often several pages full of active players. Every week, I meet more great people beyond the 10-15 that I know more personally. We're just having a good time living our lives and occasionally playing Destiny 2 while it gets patiently better. I feel very lucky to have found a good clan. It seems to be the fine line between feeling content and joyful while things get better vs. absolute resentment and impatience.

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              • Edited by BoomboxCollosus: 4/26/2018 10:53:22 AM
                It's a great concept but that's basically all it is. Plus, did we really expect this human-made game not to be tainted with exploitation once they discovered they could make a ton of money implementing little tactics. That's where Concepts and business collide. Along the way to a great idea they probably discovered where the money actually was which from a business standpoint made more sense. It's too bad they threw their reputation under the bus when the community caught on though. That's something you can't just get back. I think the lesson here for all of us is that games just need to remain games, they have a place in the world but getting obsessed over them is ultimately going to lead to disappointment. I actually think I spent too much time on the original destiny Ama so in a way I'm kind of glad this one isn't as good and may even glad it's simplified so I'm not sitting on the couch for hours trying to hammer out that Perfect Weapon. We all have our opinions on this but for me Destiny 2 kind of cured me from my destiny addiction. Now I can disappear for a week or two and not feel the need to get on and do that one more thing.

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              • I’m considering returning. I’m a PS4 player. Want to see what the May update does. Shoot me a PS4 message. Screen name is the same as here.

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              • Fake news, the word recycle isn't in there. Therefore it can't be one of Bungie's pillars.

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              • Maybe if they hadn't thrown out the golden triangle we wouldn't all be in this current mess.

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              • I've pointed this out in D1, that LS and MN ignore standard and basic design, including player feedback and the simple notion of designing for the audience you have and NOT for the audience you think you want!

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              • I know a lot of people are disappointed with Destiny 2. I understand it was bland, especially compared to the end of Destiny. But in my opinion, the blandness fit the theme of "a world without light". The City was under occupation and the Tower was in ruins. The weapons foundries must have been affected by the Red Legion invasion. As time has progressed the weapons are getting better with the CoO Verses weapons and Mods. This too fits in the context of Destiny 2. Now that the Traveler has awoken, the guardians' abilities are growing. It would have been cool if Bungie added a short cut scene with the "go faster" update where say Ikora narrated something like, "Now that the Traveler has awoken, do you feel your power returning?". It is too bad Bungie misses simple opportunities such as this to tie game play changes into the game. I am enjoying Destiny 2 and practically every day. I am looking forward to the next DLC. While I don't always agree with the changes Bungie makes, I know they aren't in this just for a buck. As long as I am having fun, I will keep playing.

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                • Edited by Jackal3801: 4/27/2018 3:15:48 AM
                  Bump

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                • Edited by Fenrir's Heart: 4/27/2018 1:36:18 AM
                  Oh how far Bungie has fallen. Meanwhile that “individual” in charge of the D2 sandbox Mr. ”True Intrinsic Joy” is doing everything possible to cover up for his mistakes rather than admit defeat and fix the game. For example... rather than reduce the time to kill for all weapons he’s simply creating an exotic based meta with perks reducing time to kill. He alone is to blame the the majority of community agreed upon bad changes from D1-D2 such as static loot, 4v4, longer time to kill, no pvp mode choice, double primaries etc etc. There’s simply too much audio and video evidence of him saying this was his “vision” for Destiny. History is fraught with the suffering masses because of so-called men with vision.

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                • Imagine if bioshock was a shared wod shooter. Let's make destiny like that.

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                  • ...

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                  • Great post ! When D2 first arrived, everyones excitement and amazement ❤️🎮 carried over ‘for awhile’ into D2. The Pillars were OK for the story line and the first 10 or so run throughs of the activities... BUT..... then we all realized the many things that were just wrong/missing and mostly caused by bad “B” decisions that degraded the pillars and killed 💔🗡the game for many players. We are no longer waiting for the weekly cutovers, wanting to crush the NFs to get our swirling heads😇 (XP boost) for the week or anxiously coordinating raid times with friends, and we are no longer helping friends with quests or activities, among many others... We are lost Guardians floating in space...🛸☠️ Weapon layout, ammo drop rates (can’t even use the weapons we have and just slowly pick things to death with primaries), progression tracking, collectible tracking, rewards, underpowered/slow/shit characters for prestige activities, way wrong styling/environmental/and boss design of “L” raid (big one for raid teams - I can’t even say the name anymore🤢🤮- Eater was better), blob subclass configuration, same weapons rolls, focus on PvP balance BS, no PVP/PVE tuning separation, no direct story line navigation, mod/token/shader stupidness and many other very important ‘subtle’ 🧐and ‘ in your face’ 🤦🏻‍♀️things just made the D2 virtual world a place where players DO NOT want to spend time ⌛️ like we all did in D1. I wrote up a bunch of Gut and Rebuild 🛠 D2 posts months back which I am sure got ignored... You have captured and restated the values (pillars) that every Bungie leader needs to have branded on their T-Shirt 👕 and forced to wear every day for a year! So, good job, I am sure no one at Bungie even cares or will read it... I am hopeful 😶 but they have a lot of things to fix before D2 will hold the attention of the community again. Or even get them to come back for more than a VERY short time ⏱ to see what changed... I use to say I was on the Bungie Train 🚃 and it was a adventure and I had always enjoyed the ride. D2 after a few months of play just ran right off the track, down a ravine and blew up in a massive fire 🔥 with the death of millions of Guardians 😪 (Bungie should think of it this way). It is a shame that they didn’t expand on where D1 eventually landed. It is like they threw every lesson out the window and a new crew of inexperienced people came in and destroyed the game because they thought they knew better. 🤷‍♂️ It seems that the younger generation 🐥 just can’t absorb or acknowledge wisdom anymore and hell bent on learning how to do everything all over again (making 100 costly 💰 💸 mistakes) vs. learning and advancing the world further on the wisdom/work/mistakes of the last generation (version). Maybe if they had to pay for it they would rethink it... 🙄-> 🤔 Move the ball 🏈 forward ➡️, decide what is important and good and KEEP it 🍺🍕🍪. And then use new tools, materials, approaches make it better👍, not run back through the same mistakes over and over again... 👎 If we had done this with construction, science, or medicine then modern life would be very different!🏚 Emojis included to aid in comprehension for the 👶 and added entertainment value ... old school -> :)

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                    • In awe at the size of this post, [b][i][u]The Absolute UNIT![/u][/i][/b]

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                    • [quote]Pillar 7: Enjoyable by the tired, impatient and distracted. Bungie believes that players don’t play games to "work hard, read or go the internet to figure out our bullshit." The core experience, Jones says, has to be delivered as simply and easily as possible. And that pillar led Bungie to "throw out a bunch of dearly-held ideas."[/quote] Now we know where D2 came from.

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                      • Only Pillar 5 is currently being accomplished, and not even mostly successful at it

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                      • Now it's the 7 lies of decline.

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                        • The 5 pillars of dodgeball: Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge.

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