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Edited by Spawn:
3/10/2018 12:12:28 PM
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Bungie put all their eggs in eSports and failed
I’ve often wondered why, how Bungie massively dropped the ball between D1 and D2
Initially it seemed they wanted to cater to the casual players, dumb down a lot of the complexity of D1 so that new players could fit in
The more I look back and research what’s going on it was nothing to do with hardcore or casual players
Bungie wanted to make D2 a main stream eSport / Twitch game getting huge online hits, popularity based on competitive game play
One of the most important aspects of eSports and gameplay is a level playing field, so each team both have a fair chance of winning, no random rolls, no Ghorn, no crazy exotic that can unbalance the eSports methodology.
This explains why everything is so bland, no God rolls or unbalanced weapons, no power, everyone is equal no matter how much time you put into the game. They wanted to create a level playing field for eSports such as games like Overwatch
But they failed miserably, and we’re now paying the price for this
[spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been moved to #Feedback forum so that other Destiny players can weigh in. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139533839/0/0] See Cozmo's thread here[/url] for more information about the #Feedback tag and its uses.
Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler]
English
#feedback
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Anyone remember this? [spoiler]For those who won't or don't want to click the link: People collectively spent only 15% of their playtime in PvP. This injustice would not be allowed to stand.[/spoiler]
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1 Reply[i]”Welcome. To the Desert of the Real.” —-Morpheus to Neo. “The Matrix”[/i] Now, you understand. Now you understand why I’ve been saying that “Destiny 2 isn’t a bad game. [i]It was the WRONG game.”[/i] And why I compare it to “New Coke” back in 1985. Destiny 2 is a good campaign shooter emphasizing mediocre pvp given to a fanbase expecting a really good looter shooter. [b]So they see D2 as a crappy looter shooter with no loot and no end game.[/b] Why was this done? Simple. Money.... and pride. Activision owns MLG. Halo was successful primarily because of pvp and e-sports. Bungie still sees itself as a innovator in competitive shooters ( it isn’t anymore) and capable of recreating Halo’s success (it can’t). Bungie is stubbornly trying to [i]Step in the Same River Twice[/i] in recreating the Halo success formula, and refuses to accept that the world has moved on. The people who WANT to play Halo are [i]playing Halo 5.[/i]. The vast majority of Destiny fans want to play [i]Destiny[/i]——the best-feeling and playing looter-shooter ever made——not a mediocre recreation of a [i]dying [/i] Halo franchise.
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8 RepliesBungie NEVER put all their eggs on the PVP basket, its the biggest myth on these forums What dev would do that and not have dedicated servers, pvp leaderboards/rankings, custom games and then reduce customisation options and nerf game choice and team size? The answer is none. For over ten years even the most basic comp games have this, as standard. Bungie -blam!-ed up as they lowered the difficulty so you basically need to just log on, to hit max level. No skill, no content, no new enemies or interesting raids....mini raids, no choice, no depth on the dull planets, cant replay story missions...they just made a dull game thin on content and interesting shit to do. They made the game they could bolt together the fastest, that they thought they could pass off for max price.
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5 RepliesMaybe there was some motivation for esports but I think the real reason is they listened to bad feedback. People said they wanted certain things but didn’t actually mean it. Example: Everyone moaned about op weapons & abilities ALL the time now we basically have no awesome weapons so everybody left. The real reason they moaned is because they are sissies who got their egos hurt by losing a pvp match but wanted to blame it on the game being unfair. When in reality they loved the game but would never say that unless of course they got what they wanted that day. This is just a short summary I could go on but can’t stand to think about it really. I just want the game to be fun again. Bungie needs to stop listening to snowflakes.
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This is news to me. You'd think a company focusing their game to be an esport would include the basics like dedicated servers or 60fps.
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Edited by BannedMythicAccount: 3/10/2018 7:13:07 AMTheir biggest fault was not priotising a fun game first. D1 beta was like Halo with space magic. D1 Y1 was like a more arcade version of D1 beta. D1 Y2 was the attempt to ‘balance’ the game. D1 Y3 was the final version of meh balance before fun. D2 beta was full on, we’re lookin at esports. The fun is ‘balance’ meh D2 Y1 so far is just stale no fun, balance before individuality.
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Edited by Eververse: 3/11/2018 5:34:51 AMIm soooo triggered by your post. I'ma go bitch about everywhere.
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3 RepliesNo, they just put together some Destiny 1 leftovers, throw out the window every aspect that could be harder to handle, and shit is done. Pure greedy predatory villain behaviour.
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1 ReplyFor eSports? They don't even have private matches or a way to spectate the games...how would two teams even enter an esports match in destiny 2?
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1 ReplyI also believe their intention was an esport game look at how the updates are all about PvP . They have no choice but to do everything in their power to save this esport mess on their hands . All PVE content is what was left on the cutting room floor that's why the only PVE content is ornament, reskins, and emblems . They were counting on the PvP esport to distract from lack of PVE content . PvP players have left d2 for other games fortnite for one and PVE players are beginning to leave for monster hunter world . They have a flop on their hands they can't save PvP and they refuse to save PVE .
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2 RepliesYou can't have a Competitive E-Sport if: 1) Anyone can get your IP Address because there are no Host Servers and all matches are Peer to Peer. This leaves the game completely open to all sorts of IP attacks, like Denial Of Service. 2) You "hope" that everyone playing has a good connection to handle 7 up and down streams of data (11 for 6v6), because there are no Host Servers. 3) No penalties for cheating at all. BungleVision only goes after people whom publicly name cheaters in the forums.
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3 RepliesWho the hell decided the “MMO FPS” should be an esport?
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If they wanted it to be a esports game it would have dedicated servers, private matches, team sponsorships and all the rest of the things required for a esports infrastructure I've never even seen Bungie mention esports.
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They wanted to base the game around eververse
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Edited by zNapSack: 3/10/2018 10:33:38 AM[quote]This explains why everything is so bland, no God rolls or unbalanced weapons, no power, everyone is equal no matter how much time you put into the game. They wanted to create a level playing field for eSports[/quote] I agree. I've stated many times, and have gone into some detail (read: "wall of text") in this regard. I use to play competitive FPS games (the 90's) at which time everyone had the same weapons and armor. There were no differences whatsoever other than individual or team skill. Period. No 'god rolls', no perk differences. Everyone's weapons were identical and everyone had the same weapons. In the games I played, at that time, there wasn't even radar. Thus one had to keep powerup spawn times in their head. A topic about which I replied to earlier. For example in Quake 3, a game, and often the entire match depended on who got the red armor or quad damage first and/or the most. Or who won the most fights, if any, over such things. In other words map control. Not who had the better weapons or rolls, armor or perks, etc. It was simply individual skill vs skill. Or, in a team based game like Counterstrike, team skill and team strategy. Including the ability to adapt on the fly when necessary. Hence, I believe that is what they're trying to do, at least to some degree. That said, I'm not claiming to like it, and it's certainly not popular. It simply is what it is. To sum it up in one word: fairness. Yes, I know that's not a popular word here. So please spare the hate replies. I understand!
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[quote]Initially it seemed they wanted to cater to the casual players, dumb down a lot of the complexity of D1 so that new players could fit in The more I look back and research what’s going on it was nothing to do with hardcore or casual players[/quote] I think you are correct. The whole blaming one group of players or the other is terrible for the community and I think completely misses Bungie's actual motives for the radical modifications from D1 to D2.
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Loot based pve game or a competitive pvp game. Pick one Bungie, the two together are clearly not working.
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They could create a game mode with a set of specific weapons. One pulse, HC, auto, etc. There, problem solved.
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They did a fine job of making a boring game with nice visuals and music. D1 has one difference... it was not boring.
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2 RepliesEdited by Jazzle2K14: 3/10/2018 11:18:42 AMWell I'm super excited! [spoiler]for the Xbox one X enchancements coming to the Division[/spoiler]
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I've heard this one before. If it is true, I don't know why didn't make a completely separate mode for it. Water down the whole game is/was a bad move. Fact of the matter is there should be more modes of pvp play anyway. They could have set up the current system of dual primaries/heavy, another with old school primary/special/heavy and an esport mode with complete weapon balancing. Imagine if instead of dropping the primary/special/heavy they kept it and added the dual primary set-up. They could've used both in pve and created different modifiers, scenarios and events based on them.
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I agree with some of those points... I just dont understand how Bungie could make a sequel so poorly and disconnected from where D1 ended being so great.
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14 RepliesEdited by Evskii: 3/10/2018 2:57:18 AMI don’t see how this argument holds any merit. What did they do to this game to make it an eSport? What specifically is an eSport thing? Do note that I pity this game but I just think all of you eSport people talk out your ass.
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48 RepliesEdited by gallp13: 3/10/2018 2:25:41 AM[b]OPINIONS ARE FINE ... CLAIMING THERE ARE FACTS TO SUPPORT AN OPINION WHEN THERE ARE NONE IS .........[/b] [b]TL:DR Silverk post below to correct its about mass appeal not e-sports [/b] The more I look back and research what’s going on it was nothing to do with hardcore or casual players [i][b]Please share your research and sources[/b][/i] Bungie wanted to make D2 a main stream eSport / Twitch game getting huge online hits, popularity based on competitive game play [i][b]Please share the Bungie citation(s) [/b][/i] One of the most important aspects of eSports and gameplay is a level playing field, so each team both have a fair chance of winning, no random rolls, no Ghorn, no crazy exotic that can unbalance the eSports methodology. [i][b]Yes this is one feature there are many others as you imply[/b][/i] This explains why everything is so bland, no God rolls or unbalanced weapons, no power, everyone is equal no matter how much time you put into the game. They wanted to create a level playing field for eSports such as games like Overwatch [i][b]Refer : Bungie discussion on D2 design drivers https://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/the-bungie-podcast/id260716482?mt=2&i=1000395442794 E-sport was not the driver. [/b][/i] Happy to receive and education if OP is able to provide their research and sources confirming e-sport was the design driver.
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3 RepliesEdited by Psyggie: 3/10/2018 6:52:41 AMCompletely disagree. If they were that serious about esporting they wouldn't have put so much into the story, and would have invested in dedicated servers and a way better tick rate. This post makes no sense at all.
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Uhhhh no. If they did go all in on esports, the game wouldn't be crap.
