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#feedback

Edited by Lost Sols: 1/27/2018 9:52:34 PM
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A house being built, not a house falling down

It's been an extraordinary time to be a Destiny player and a bungie.net member the last 8 months. As someone who's been around Bungie and bnet from the beginning, the level of interaction and give/take has been unprecedented. I know that there's heavy focus on Christopher Barrett (who's seen as the Knight in shining armor at the studio), but it's been much deeper than that and what the studio are given credit for and yes there have been missteps and gaps in the coms since launch, but I think the last week has really started to open eyes to what is really happening with the game, the studio and the community. Destiny 2 is a house being built. I know there's the overarching forum sentiment that (x) should have been here at launch, and for the sake of this conversation I would ask that we take it as known that everyone understands that, including Bungie and nothing is going to change what did and didn't make it in. Destiny 1 was a house falling down for 3 years. Yeah it was a nice home and our first in the universe and we loved it, but something was always breaking and falling apart and for 3 years patch after patch tried to stop the leaks and shore up the foundation, but each fix was at expense of something else we loved. Destiny 2 is not the game most expected. Be it the grind, the weapon system, Crucible... There are things that Bungie has changed and tried different approaches with the goal of creating a game that can grow and evolve and a house that can grow with additions without having to tear down what already exists. Over 3 years of Destiny One there were so many things that were asked for and populated community wish lists for the duration of the game without ever seeing the light of day and by the end of D1 it was obvious that the things Bungie could do and implement, they did and the things we never saw just weren't possible within the framework of the game. Destiny 2's reset hasn't been the experience people expected and I would think that includes within the studio, but sometimes to go forward you have to take a step back and I believe that's where we're at. There are things that we as players want this game to be and I can tell you unequivocally that the individuals who go to work each day to create this universe want those things just as much as we do. Destiny 1 wouldn't allow those visions to be realized. So yes, D2 made sacrifices and took chances on game changing systems and some have worked incredibly well and others need to be better, but by making the decision to start fresh as painful as the things lost in the transition might be, Bungie have ultimately crafted with D2 a game that has allowed our thoughts, hopes and visions to not sit on a community wish list for the next 3 years, but to be discussed and implemented. I want anyone who was here for the last 3 years to really think about the significance of not just the last TW@B, but each of the concerns that have arisen over the last 5 months. From Coz asking for initial feedback a month in, to the first Developer response to those concerns that brought us the foundation of the Masterworks system and the beginning of the shift from Tokens as the end all be all rewards. We are seeing a game in D2 that we as players are shaping almost in real time and the developers are actively engaging not just the community, but bnet to ask thoughts on not just general feedback but how we'd like to see specific activities like Trials improved. Yes, there's a lot of work to be done and there is so much more information that Bungie put out that needs to be better curated and more easily accessible to the community, but I never in D1 felt like we had this level of real hope for that game to grow and become what we all dreamed and this level of not just interaction, but direct implementation of our feedback is what we have been hoping for, for years. So whether you've moved on from the game, dabble occasionally or still play and love the gameplay and universe, despite the sentiment that's pervaded that the sky is falling, Destiny as a franchise has NEVER been in a better position to succeed and the studio has never been in a position to truly act on what we all want the game to become like they can now and they've never been this plugged into the player base.
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#feedback #DTC

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  • Sorry, dude. We agree on most things....but I've got to call "Foul" on this one. Destiny 2 isn't a "house being built"....its a house being RE-built. Its having to be rebuilt---imo---because Bungie lost sight of the core-identity of its game, and the core-identity of the people who play it. Destiny 1----as imperfect a game as it was--was always primiarly a PVE game, and was played-and-related to primarily as a loot-based RPG. Not a competitive shooter. The decision to re-brand the game as a competitive shooter was a colossal mistake. One that feed the ambitions---imo---of a powerful faction within Bungie (for whom Jon Weisznewski has become the public face), and the wishes of a vocal minority OF a minority of the player base. In the process giving a slap in the face to the game's PVE player base...and handing them a game that was the hollowed-out shell of the RPG that Destiny 1 was. ...and that Barrett is now trying to rebuild from the pieces of what he was handed. Although the behavior around here and other places has been ridiculous at times....the emotions are real and legitimate. A lot of people stuck with Bungie and with Destiny 1....through a long period of time....where it was not-a-very-good game. They helped Bungie to turn it into a pretty good RPG-shooter hybrid by the end of its run. Only to have Bungie throw all that away....take the support of these people for granted...and (imo) make a naked grab at e-sports revenue. And in the process alienating BOTH halves of the community because the core experience of the game has been so dramatically changed. PVE is stuck with an end-game that has NO power-progression, and is a chase after cosmetic items that have no impact on game play or player power. PVP is stuck with a stale, repetitive PVP experience where the ENTIRE game has been redesigned to promote and protect a SINGLE play-style. To the point where there is literally no other effective way to play. So the game has become this miserable (especially as a solo player) experience where you go back and forth between playing "Mob Up, Camp in a Corner, and Team Shoot"......and "Mob Up, Roll Around The Map in An Unstoppable Death Ball...and Team Shoot". Try to play any other way, and you just get wrecked. I will never condone the abuse, name-calling, and other toxic behavior people engage in and try to rationalize as the "inevitable" outcome of people being mad (it isn't). But people have a right to be royally pissed off at how Bungie took their support for this game for granted. ..and there is no guarantee that if we---go through this process with them...AGAIN---that we wont' be right back in this same spot when Destiny 3 drops. Bungie has to repair that breech of trust....and they have NO ONE but themselves to blame for its creation.

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    • Yup and here is the house.

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    • Eternal optimism is a fine trait. Unconditional love and unquestioning trust are also great sentiments. What we are actually dealing with here are IMO some unpleasant realities and unmistakable facts. The game is not in a good place. The great coms and changes have always come from the LIVE team. The direction and vision of the sandbox and gameplay directors are still distorted under the principle somehow less is more in an RPG game. They are moving on to D3 with seemingly the same ideologies which will leave another giant mess for CB and the LIVE team to try and cleanup. In a construction world Bungie is simply a bad builder. They throw up a building only to spend 3yrs on change orders they knew the customer wanted to begin with. They nerf with abandon and throw out mudflation as their excuse. Sage and Jon do not respect the fans opinion and are hell bent on PVP balance over fun. I appreciate your optimism. There does need to be that yin to this forums yang to keep things from collapsing at times. I do disagree on the foundation of D2 and give all credit to CB and his fantastic LIVE team. I would share your optimism more if he were working on D3 instead of Sage and Jon. With them in charge I feel all hope is lost for the future.

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      • Perhaps before this house is built a foundation needs to be reexamined.

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        • Destiny 2 was a house that was built out of straws and wet paper. It obviously started to crumble, and now Bungie is scrambling to reinforce it with actual building materials before it completely disintegrates.

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        • Question sols. How much does bungie pay you?

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          • [quote]Destiny 1 was a house falling down for 3 years[/quote] LOL. What? The game was getting better and better through year 2 and year 3. That's gave players hope for the next version. The analogy doesn't fit at all. [quote]Destiny 2's reset hasn't been the experience people expected....[/quote] You have set a new record for FanBoysplaining. LOL. This game was a rush job and they presented an unfinished product. You can try and spin it anyway you want, but that's the result. So, let's hear you defend the carbon copy character creation tool and giving players less vault space. How do those items fit into your "start fresh" theory?

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            • 9
              Everyone on this forum is now dumber have read this. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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              • Edited by Maliades: 1/29/2018 10:04:38 PM
                Lemme fix your analogy. [i]Destiny 1[/i] was a house being built. It was the first game - the house didn't exist yet. Their mistakes were acceptable the first time around because it was the [i]first time[/i]. We didn't like it, but we gave them the benefit of the doubt with the faith that they'd take all they'd learned and were learning, into the sequel, and we'd get something great out of it. This was [i]Bungie[/i], after all. Makers of [i]HALO[/i]. [i]Destiny 2 [/i]is a house that's [i]already[/i] been built, being 'improved' by removing pesky things like doors, plumbing, heat, and walls. Destiny 1, at the end of it's cycle, was fantastic. Bungie had zero reason, zero, to remove as much as they did.

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              • This franchise couldn't be in a better place to succeed? That can't be further from correct, I'm sorry. Sure, the development team has a better grasp on what they want to do, but based on how bad the reception of Curse of Osiris has been, and there's the fact that this game is losing players almost as fast as I've seen any game lose players. The problem with D2 is that they're starting with an objectively worse foundation, and so far the expansion has been worse than even Dark Below. Destiny 2 just feels like a huge slap in the face for Destiny fans, the game feels like it has the attitude of "We'll make this game so that 4 year olds and 94 year olds can pick it up, our devoted fans will eat it up even if it's literal shit." Bungie decided that they hated the original house they made wasn't good, so they tore the entire thing down and made a much worse house. Destiny 2 feels like I'm getting -blam!-ed in the ass. [spoiler]And not in the good way ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)[/spoiler] I unfortunately can't see D2 improve because ethe foundation and building so far are flimsy and lackluster.

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                • Edited by Vrexxen: 1/30/2018 3:55:02 PM
                  Oh dear, someone’s very clearly drank the kool-aid. Wait, didn’t Bungie post a CM position recently? Are you including these posts in your resume?

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                • https://youtu.be/5hfYJsQAhl0 LOL

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                • Pathetic

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                • Taking a look at the Trials numbers so far... 85k. It will go lower. Easily it will get to half of the lowest D1 numbers at some point. You're trolling HARD or coming off of opiates.

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                • Such grand delusions, such vigorous spin. If Destiny was in such a great place, there wouldn't be 7 million people who abandoned ship already. Content creators and streamers wouldn't be dropping the game and moving on to actual good ones. If Bungie was in such a great place, wall street wouldn't be devaluing Activision stock in direct relation to the game's failings. Bungie knocked the house down and now wants to look around with their hands up like they have no idea how it happened. Its just too little, too late. I know it hurts your feelings, but the facts paint a very different picture.

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                  • Slurp slurp slurp.

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                  • the broken house was better than this shit shack that has paper walls.

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                  • Dude they aren't going to hire you, no matter how many one sided stories your mealy mouthed self writes on their behalf. Give it a rest.

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                    • I bought this game on the belief I was going to get the already built mansion from D1.

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                    • AoT was the pinnacle of either Destiny release. It contained many of things the community had wanted for 3 years. The fact that much of that was then taken away again for Destiny 2 has pushed a lot of players away for good. I’ve been a supporter of Bungie for a long time and have bought every release since Halo 1, but if they don’t actually change things drastically by the next DLC, they’ll have a hard time keeping me as a customer. I bought the first 2 DLCs when I bought D2 so I will give them until then. The RNG in this release seems rigged and if a player wants to spend real money for silver they should be able to get exactly what they want. RNG with real money is -blam!-ing ridiculous.

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                      • I'm not sure how D1 was a house falling down? D1 started with a basic foundation in Vanilla and by the time D1 was done in Y3 - Age of Triumph, it was the best house in the neighborhood. Had they kept the continuity going, none of this festering shithole known as D2 would have been an issue. I'm of course referring to PvE, the only aspect of the game that actually matters and should have been the focus of the studio at all times. PvE itself and all of the QoL updates we had were amazing. The only issue was the nerfing and you know what that wasn't a "Destiny" problem, that was a "Bungie didn't have the balls to flat out tell the PvP crybabies to sit down and STFU" problem. That's all that needed to happen! If PvP had been kept to the fun time, romper room side show it was supposed to be in the first place NONE of the shit we're dealing with right now would have been an issue. There would have been far less nerfs. Maybe D2 would actually be good?! Any of my friends and clan mates and pretty much anyone I ever met randomly or on LFG cared about 1 thing - PvE. But it didn't matter, the PvP minority is what got catered to and here we are in D2 with empty friends lists and inactive clans. Hardly anyone from my clan gets on. I personally put in thousands of hours into D1 and I don't play D2 unless my clan needs help with something which is more and more rare. If we're looking at it from the perspective that D2/Bungie have hit rock bottom and therefore the only way to go is up, then sure, yeah, I guess they're in a "great" position to succeed now....?

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                        • Hahahahahaha ..... Dumbass

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                        • What happened to the sols who used to post the truth. Not the whole " a house being built" bullcrap. When you sell me a product, it should not come with a " it will get better we promise" asterisks next to the title. Especially when we did just that with d1.

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                          • Lol

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                          • And to back up my other statement, people are now going full derp over tales and legends in the grimoire being called tales and legends, i.e. Folklore. Whodathunkit that us reading about the passing on of the legend of a gun or guardian through oral tradition might not be absolute fact. Or that the book of sorrows may have grains of truth buried in a lot of stylized mythology created by another species to explain their journey from a primitive to an advanced, alien, culture. People are literally searching for anything and everything to hate on anymore.

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                            • Good to see you're still spouting your nonsense. Your life is sad. I generally feel bad for you.

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