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9/1/2010 12:24:31 PM
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How is Flag Juggling a glitch/exploit? [Voice your opinion!]
I've seen numerous amounts of threads with people talking about how flag juggling is a glitch/exploit and how it's great that it's been fixed in Reach. May I ask why people suggest that it's a glitch? I know there are alot of intelligent users here so I'm looking for well thought out replies.
[quote][b]This thread may not apply to you![/b][/quote]
Bear in mind.
> Flag juggling was around in Halo:CE
> Flag juggling was around in Halo 2
> This 'glitch' wasn't fixed for Halo 3
> Is it possible that Bungie has changed this to cater for the majority of Halo's lesser skilled players? (imo Brigadiers and below) Note: That's my opinion, I'm entitled.
> Is it possible that Bungie hates Competitive aspects of gaming and is trying to wipe it out of their games slowly?
-Flag Juggling in itself is a skill. Not anybody can perform said action quickly and effectively. There is a huge skill gap when it comes to flag juggling which shows how much skill it takes. Not to mention that you are constantly reminded of the flag runner's position as the flag icon is showing their path.
-Compare your flag juggle to a Major League Gaming professional player who can toss it twice as far as you, promotes skill while still maintains a balanced game.
-If the other team manages to get a cap on you while you're all re-spawning and he's flag juggling, it's your fault not theirs. They have map control, they maintain map control, they benefit from their skills.
- It's not hard to stop a flag juggler unless your team has been completely annihilated and is on spawn, or you're the kind of person who thinks that playing good defense in CTF means camping your own base.
- CTF with flag juggling adds pace to the game and is fair. Whether it's an exploit or not isn't even really relevant. It adds to gameplay. (I've never seen any evidence that it is an exploit)
- Interestingly, walking the flag takes a lot more skill when flag juggling is a part of the game! If walking is the only way to travel with the flag, then it's always expected, but if juggling is more the norm, then you can occasionally make great plays walking the flag, because people aren't as prepared for it. Ever seen a pro walk the flag in an MLG event? It doesn't happen often (and seems to happen more on Narrows than on any other map), but when it works, it's bad ass. Always a clever play. Removing flag juggling removes this kind of cleverness.
[quote][/quote]
[b]Against Flag Running:[/b]
> Promotes Teamwork as your Objective player is walking the flag across the map instead of juggling at an increased speed.
> I guess it could take more skill if it means an increase of time of having to defend your objective player.
>'Levels the playing field'.
>'Allows the game to be played like it was intended.'
> 'Promotes an equal ground for new players who don't know how to flag run'
> Means not having to listen to the announcer saying, 'Flag Stolen, Flag Dropped repeatedly.
> Latency in-game affected the speed at which it could be performed providing a disadvantage for the off-host team.
Discuss.
This is a re-post of an old thread of mine. I just want to gather more opinions from members now that we're closer to release date.
[Edited on 09.01.2010 4:26 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JaZzyBoy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI > Is it possible that Bungie has changed this to cater for the majority of Halo's lesser skilled players? (imo Brigadiers and below)[/quote] Pf Really? So you gotta be a 50 to be good in this game? Please. I destroy 50s. It doesnt really matter of what skill you're at in this game anymore. Way to many boosters and people who's been carried. Basically, rank means jack -blam!-. [/quote] Oh colonels, why must you be so butthurt all the time.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xdarkxkamikazex 2 things i wan to say but first im not biased in any way i enjoy halo 2 its fullest including the competitive side if u want proof go see my game history [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VolatileToast Sorry if this bursts some kind of bubble, but flag juggling is now only possible in custom games (e.g. MLG will be all over it as a "legit" strategy and allow it in the official MLG gametypes). The ONLY thing that ever pisses me off in matchmaking is cheaters like that. BxR, BxB, Flag juggling, triple shots. All of it. [/quote] now first all u retards like this guy think that flag jugging is in MM your retard i clearly remember doing this "exploit" in stockpile IN THE BETA and so why would they change it after the beta ps in mlg i played objective so i abused the the -blam!- out of it 2ed it promotes teamwork and startgy because they move so fast u cant be mindless idiots an just kill everything because u got to WORK WITH UR TEAMMATES TO KILL HIM AND STOP HIM FORM GETING AWAY AND BE SMART AND NOT ALL DIE [/quote] [url]http://www.enjoyhiphopresponsibly.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/capslock.jpg[/url] Also, they posted in a bungie weekly update, so yeah. It's out of matchmaking officially.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DarkAero Trooper it`s an exploit and it`s annoying,whenever i come across a flag juggler i steal the flag and give it back to the enemy or throw it off the edge[/quote] So to counteract against a tactic [b]regardless[/b] of it's stance in the game, you grief your team-mates. Seems like a dick move to me. I've never seen anyone do that unless they were deranking. Obviously you are no better than them. [Edited on 09.01.2010 6:14 AM PDT]
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This thread is about whether it is an exploit worth removing or not. You are so adamant about getting rid of this so called exploit when you yourself play as an elite... which is unfair for everyone you play against.
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2 things i wan to say but first im not biased in any way i enjoy halo 2 its fullest including the competitive side if u want proof go see my game history [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VolatileToast Sorry if this bursts some kind of bubble, but flag juggling is now only possible in custom games (e.g. MLG will be all over it as a "legit" strategy and allow it in the official MLG gametypes). The ONLY thing that ever pisses me off in matchmaking is cheaters like that. BxR, BxB, Flag juggling, triple shots. All of it. [/quote] now first all u retards like this guy think that flag jugging is in MM your retard i clearly remember doing this "exploit" in stockpile IN THE BETA and so why would they change it after the beta ps in mlg i played objective so i abused the the -blam!- out of it 2ed it promotes teamwork and startgy because they move so fast u cant be mindless idiots an just kill everything because u got to WORK WITH UR TEAMMATES TO KILL HIM AND STOP HIM FORM GETING AWAY AND BE SMART AND NOT ALL DIE
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] John from AZ [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VolatileToast [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SKYDROME So, as I have it, you generally think that it is a good idea to handicap yourself in game, therefore winning less often? Well, that's you, but it dosen't make sense to me. Also, on the subject of exploits, have you ever used a crouch jump?[/quote] I would want to have as much advantage in a game as is rightfully intended. If their was a way to boost my speed in Halo while carrying the flag that wasn't an exploit, say a custom power-up for that particular map, I'd use it in a heartbeat. I will not comment on the crouch jump as this "discussion" doesn't need to be further tainted with attempts at diminishing others character.[/quote] You continue to play as an elite...even though they have been proven "harder to kill" also there are spots on an elite such as the "neck cap" where shots do not register. None of this was intended by bungie yet you continue to exploit it.[/quote] i wouldn`t derail this thread just because you`re angry that some people like to not play as power rangers i lol`d at all the posts defending flag juggling it`s an exploit and it`s annoying,whenever i come across a flag juggler i steal the flag and give it back to the enemy or throw it off the edge
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] John from AZ [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VolatileToast [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] John from AZ [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VolatileToast [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SKYDROME So, as I have it, you generally think that it is a good idea to handicap yourself in game, therefore winning less often? Well, that's you, but it dosen't make sense to me. Also, on the subject of exploits, have you ever used a crouch jump?[/quote] I would want to have as much advantage in a game as is rightfully intended. If their was a way to boost my speed in Halo while carrying the flag that wasn't an exploit, say a custom power-up for that particular map, I'd use it in a heartbeat. I will not comment on the crouch jump as this "discussion" doesn't need to be further tainted with attempts at diminishing others character.[/quote] You continue to play as an elite...even though they have been proven "harder to kill" also there are spots on an elite such as the "neck cap" where shots do not register. None of this was intended by bungie yet you continue to exploit it.[/quote] That only proves effective in swat. and I haven't played (or much of halo 3 matchmaking) in quite a while. Another derailing attempt... [/quote] Why would it be just swat? Your logic doesn't make sense. The kill shot for a br is the same in all playlists. As for the "neck cap" sniper, br, ar, carbine all do not register.[/quote] This thread is about flag juggling. Not elite killbox placement. Either post your thoughts on flag juggling or go away.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thats Cooper [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SAR02 Also I believe it takes more skill/teamwork to walk the flag. Is it easier to kill the opposing team once and then have no furhter resistance or would it require greater skill to be able to fend off multiple attacks from various directions while walking the flag. Exactly... [/quote] O but is it easier to kill a guy walking the flag or a guy running it? It really doesn't take any teamwork or skill to recover from losing control and having your flag stolen when you can die and respawn 3 or 4 times before the other team can cap.[/quote] Clearly it's easier to kill someone walking it. But that's the point! It's meant to be a competition. Do you really enjoy a game where you can run the flag three times with almost no contest from the other team. Or is it more enjoyable (and balanced) to have to defend the falg once you've taken it?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VolatileToast [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] John from AZ [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VolatileToast [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SKYDROME So, as I have it, you generally think that it is a good idea to handicap yourself in game, therefore winning less often? You didnt answer my question... WHY ARE YOU AN ELITE, WHEN IT HAS BEEN PROVEN THAT THEY ARE HARDER TO KILL? THIS WAS NOT INTENDED BY BUNGIE WHICH MAKES IT AN EXPLOIT Well, that's you, but it dosen't make sense to me. Also, on the subject of exploits, have you ever used a crouch jump?[/quote] I would want to have as much advantage in a game as is rightfully intended. If their was a way to boost my speed in Halo while carrying the flag that wasn't an exploit, say a custom power-up for that particular map, I'd use it in a heartbeat. I will not comment on the crouch jump as this "discussion" doesn't need to be further tainted with attempts at diminishing others character.[/quote] You continue to play as an elite...even though they have been proven "harder to kill" also there are spots on an elite such as the "neck cap" where shots do not register. None of this was intended by bungie yet you continue to exploit it.[/quote] That only proves effective in swat. and I haven't played (or much of halo 3 matchmaking) in quite a while. Another derailing attempt... [/quote] Why would it be just swat? Your logic doesn't make sense. The kill shot for a br is the same in all playlists. As for the "neck cap" sniper, br, ar, carbine all do not register. [Edited on 09.01.2010 6:10 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI > Is it possible that Bungie has changed this to cater for the majority of Halo's lesser skilled players? (imo Brigadiers and below)[/quote] Pf Really? So you gotta be a 50 to be good in this game? Please. I destroy 50s. It doesnt really matter of what skill you're at in this game anymore. Way to many boosters and people who's been carried. Basically, rank means jack -blam!-.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] I liek Reach [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Nick Capriolo I believe that if you are actually good at Halo, you don't need to juggle the flag. Hearing "flag dropped", "flag taken", "flag dropped", "flag taken",...etc really annoyed me while playing CTF. Good players will take in consideration the speed penalty of carrying the flag. So, it definitely doesn't cater to less skilled players. In fact, I believe, it does the opposite by making it slightly more difficult. Who's with me?[/quote] Not only is it annoying, it shows you have little skill, if you can't wield a ONE-HIT-KILL weapon without having to use an exploit, you're trash[/quote] That is the most untrue statement I have ever heard in my life.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI This is a re-post of an old thread of mine.[/quote] Just let it die...
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] John from AZ [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VolatileToast [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SKYDROME So, as I have it, you generally think that it is a good idea to handicap yourself in game, therefore winning less often? Well, that's you, but it dosen't make sense to me. Also, on the subject of exploits, have you ever used a crouch jump?[/quote] I would want to have as much advantage in a game as is rightfully intended. If their was a way to boost my speed in Halo while carrying the flag that wasn't an exploit, say a custom power-up for that particular map, I'd use it in a heartbeat. I will not comment on the crouch jump as this "discussion" doesn't need to be further tainted with attempts at diminishing others character.[/quote] You continue to play as an elite...even though they have been proven "harder to kill" also there are spots on an elite such as the "neck cap" where shots do not register. None of this was intended by bungie yet you continue to exploit it.[/quote] That only proves effective in swat. and I haven't played (or much of halo 3 matchmaking) in quite a while. Another derailing attempt...
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thats Cooper [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Vetto I have no idea why this thread even here the game gone gold, flag juggling is out, not amount of demand is going to change it now. [/quote] Actually there is a custom option that can be turned off and on at will. Fixing this mistake is quite easy.[/quote] This mistake is subjective, You call it a mistake they call it a fix, only bungie dub what is right and currently they dubbed it as a Fix. I'm sorry I'm not sad to see it go, I could careless about the speed boost or not but the annoying voice will stop going "Flag dropped, Flag Taken, Flag dropped" Over and over ones people realize there slowing them self down more now. [Edited on 09.01.2010 6:05 AM PDT]
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It annoys the -blam!- out of me. Do I really need to hear it constantly? I don't feel I need to mute my tv so I don't chuck my controller through it to stop the noise. "Flag taken.. Flag dropped.. flag taken.. flag dropped" Just play the game properly! you are slow for a reason!
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Lol I love flag juggling, the tryhard usually gets angry when I take his flag cap. I actually made a friend of my friend break his controller cause I took his flag caps... ah good times.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Vetto I have no idea why this thread even here the game gone gold, flag juggling is out, not amount of demand is going to change it now. [/quote] Actually there is a custom option that can be turned off and on at will. Fixing this mistake is quite easy.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dreadnought771 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VolatileToast [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Metalignus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Royal Fool 47 Flag carriers are supposed to run slow. Flag juggling bypasses this speed penalty. Thus, it's an exploit.[/quote] This.[/quote] And anyone who has a problem with it needs to get the -blam!- over it.[/quote] and you know what, mr. 'volatile toast' its athing many people call cheating just because they cant be bothered to play the game properly like normal people. people who think they can cheat just because they won a game of MLG. that, indeed is what you are, 'Volatile Toast'.[/quote] Not to insult you or anything, but i'm having a hard time understanding what you are saying. [i]I think[/i] that was an attempt at an insult, but I could be wrong. Please clarify.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Royal Fool 47 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Vetto I have no idea why this thread even here the game gone gold, flag juggling is out, not amount of demand is going to change it now. [/quote]Flag juggling is out of Matchmaking. It's still in Customs as an option.[/quote] While I understand my point still there, IT out in MM no amount of demand going to change it bungie has made there decision the chances of them going back on it this late in the stage are is highly unlikely.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Royal Fool 47 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Tipper [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Royal Fool 47 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thats Cooper By your logic moving diagonally back and forth randomly is an exploit. Placing a warthog in a doorway to block it of is an exploit. Launching plasma nades off of other plasma nades is an exploit. Bottom gold to top gold jump on guardian is an exploit. Essentially by your logic anything a player does that bungie didn't intentionally design in the game is an exploit. Im sorry, but that's just not true. All it is is people fooling around with the sandbox in a sandbox game and developing advanced tactics.[/quote]Try an argument that isn't fallacious. Then we can have a proper debate.[/quote] Cooper makes a good point though. By the reasoning of many people who are against flag juggling such things as grenade jumping or double tapping Y to come out of scope are also exploits.[/quote]He hasn't addressed the original point. He has instead, insulted me, and use the "if flag juggling is an exploit than.....is too!" argument, which only serves to derail the original point. [/quote] I COMPLETELY addressed the original point. Original point- It is an exploit. You're supposed to move slowly with the flag. Counter - [quote] All it is is people fooling around with the sandbox in a sandbox game and developing advanced tactics. [/quote] I (and others) then gave examples to back that point up. Crouch jumping and YY being the best examples. None of these things are exploits. All they are is people using intentionally designed gameplay mechanics in combos that bungie did not foresee while making the game.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VolatileToast [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SKYDROME So, as I have it, you generally think that it is a good idea to handicap yourself in game, therefore winning less often? Well, that's you, but it dosen't make sense to me. Also, on the subject of exploits, have you ever used a crouch jump?[/quote] I would want to have as much advantage in a game as is rightfully intended. If their was a way to boost my speed in Halo while carrying the flag that wasn't an exploit, say a custom power-up for that particular map, I'd use it in a heartbeat. I will not comment on the crouch jump as this "discussion" doesn't need to be further tainted with attempts at diminishing others character.[/quote] You continue to play as an elite...even though they have been proven "harder to kill" also there are spots on an elite such as the "neck cap" where shots do not register. None of this was intended by bungie yet you continue to exploit it.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] VolatileToast [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Metalignus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Royal Fool 47 Flag carriers are supposed to run slow. Flag juggling bypasses this speed penalty. Thus, it's an exploit.[/quote] This.[/quote] And anyone who has a problem with it needs to get the -blam!- over it.[/quote] and you know what, mr. 'volatile toast' its a thing many people call cheating just because they cant be bothered to play the game properly like normal people. people who think they can cheat just because they won a game of MLG. that, indeed is what you are, 'Volatile Toast'. [Edited on 09.01.2010 5:59 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Vetto I have no idea why this thread even here the game gone gold, flag juggling is out, not amount of demand is going to change it now. [/quote]Flag juggling is out of Matchmaking. It's still in Customs as an option.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Vetto I have no idea why this thread even here the game gone gold, flag juggling is out, not amount of demand is going to change it now. [/quote] This, everyone, is someone who gets it. I salute you sir.
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I have no idea why this thread even here the game gone gold, flag juggling is out, not amount of demand is going to change it now.
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Personally i think Flag running is not a problem, however the voice does get annoying. But to say it is a skill is stupid, people at level 10 in MLG can do the plat to green jump with the flag. Halo CE and 2 is a diffrent story nading the flag from one base to another took alot more skill and if you could not keep up with it, well you should not be the level you was.
