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Edited by Mystaex:
11/26/2017 2:17:19 PM
43
PvP in Destiny 2 is boring
Destiny 2 PvP is boring and has no flavour. There's practically no skill gap and very little potential to outplay somebody.
The main reason PvP is so frustrating in this game is because of the emphasis on 'team play' which essentially just means running around with your friends and focus firing together. This just makes PvP a boring experience for everybody involved.
If the time to kill were to be reduced it would eliminate the team shooting meta which would make the game more reliant on individual skill and more importantly, enjoyable to play. Instead players would be rewarded for quick reaction time and accuracy rather than how many people they have stood next to them when engaging in a fight. More and more people capitalising on this strategy and it's making the PvP so stale and monotonous. So many times I try to punish people who are miles out of position and they can just walk away freely because of how many bullets it takes to kill them.
Reduce the time to kill. Everybody I've spoken to about this finds it frustrating and agrees the game would be better if the time to kill was reduced.
Other frustrations I have with PvP. The power ammo respawn rate and the current matchmaking.
If I ever want to solo queue in quick play or competitive I'm usually paired up against a 4 stack because the matchmaking is extremely basic. This is even more annoying because team killing is the current meta. I get paired with a duo and another solo player who have no coordination vs a team of 4 who run around together absolutely destroying us effortlessly. It's even more frustrating because I'm extremely limited to any carry potential because of how small the skill gap is. This makes it so that PvP requires you to find other players to stack up with. This is also becoming increasingly harder to do with the rapidly declining player base.
The power ammo spawns way too frequently in Destiny 2. In a game where time to kill is excessive it's extremely frustrating to get 1 hit by a rocket that missed you but still kills you because of the huge blast radius and cluster bomb perk. I can deal with all the other power weapons, but rockets have no place in Destiny 2 PvP whatsoever. I understand that power ammo is supposed to be for the team that holds map control but due to the matchmaking issues, power just makes it easier for the 4 man stack you're put up against to absolutely roll you. At the very least you can decrease the cooldown on it.
Edit* Another bone I have to pick with PvP is controller aim assist on PC. I understand that you want the option for players who aren't comfortable with a mouse and keyboard. But using a controller shouldn't be half as good as using a mouse and keyboard let alone comparable, it's ridiculous. You can keep the aim assist for PvE but it has absolutely no place in PvP. Players on PC who aren't comfortable using a mouse and keyboard can learn, just like everybody else did at one point. Destiny is probably one of the best games for learning mouse and keyboard in the early stages, because of the PvE side of things. You can take your time shooting the ads and getting used to aiming without being punished by more experienced players. The aim assist in PvP is absurd. Aiming with a controller takes no skill, and it's unfair to players who can actually aim with a mouse and keyboard that somebody using a controller can go toe to toe with them because of the excessive aim assist.
Please up vote this post so somebody at Bungie sees and can respond. Also feel free to disagree with any of the points I made, just explain to me why you disagree rather than just flame.
English
#destiny2
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To beat team shooting...you use team shooting. And how is team shooting boring with your friends?
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6 RepliesHit the nail on the head. I've gone back to playing CoD (never thought I would do that) after 6 years. God it's a blast compared to this crap. It could be so fun if they just put even basic features in. Such as a leaderboard, more game modes, different team sizes, and reducing the TTK. It's absurdly high. I have literally emptied a full Antiope-D mag into someone for them to smile, wave and proceed to kill me while reloading. Lol. They should keep the 4v4 for people that enjoy it, just add more for those of us who don't. It's not rocket science Bungie. With as large of a fan base as this series has, they should know they have tons of different opinions on what people like in their pvp and at least attempt to satisfy most of them.
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Edited by Corrick II: 11/27/2017 7:40:17 PMI'll agree being team shot sucks but there are still good gunplay or skill moments. Especially wiping a whole team with a fist of havoc after they've been team shooting you over and over. I still get a few one on one gunfights happening, I guess I just haven't gone up against a solid 4-person clan group very often.
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Edited by Guardian1659: 11/27/2017 7:13:39 PMI just hate that they took rumble away, and that if I want to play I’m forced to play in team based modes. To me that’s one of the biggest issues.
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21 RepliesEdited by GraciousEel761: 11/26/2017 2:51:24 AMThere is a fine line between too long and too fast. If the time to kill were decreased, all things the same, Team Shooting would literally be even more difficult to deal with. The pace of gameplay and power of the individual is mostly being affected by the reduction in effectiveness of grenades and melee attacks. Since there are currently zero one hit kill melee or grenade abilities (aside from DoT grenades like Pulse, Vortex, Solar) the pace of combat has drastically reduced and the main focus is on gunfights. All that being said, the time to kill is I think in a good spot. It may not be perfect, but its close. It gives players time to react to shooting without just instantly dieing, and allows for efficient teamwork. Destiny is a team game. The Strikes, Raids, Trials and PvP all reflect the emphasis on Teamwork. In D1, Crucible was all about individual skill, and the teams were largely just supplemental, or pawns, to make sure you weren't getting flanked. D2 has greater emphasis on playing with your team, as opposed to solo, but its not completely impossible to win 2v1 engagements. In this META, grenades are supporting abilities, rather than primary engagement tools. Instead of spamming grenades, you are forced to consider your options and play accordingly. I think its fair to say that the lack of power in abilities is not fun. I don't necessarily agree, but I also don't like how ineffective many of the grenades feel. There are clear winners and I don't think that is whats best for the game. The game needs diversity and balance to survive, and overpowered weapons or abilities takes the fun out of the arsenal available to players. So in closing, I think the kill times are in a great spot, but abilities need changing. It could just be cooldown, or just damage, or both, but I don't think reversion to D1 levels is correct.
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23 RepliesFast TTKs ruin games, especially since bungie did halo for years which took skill and not just turn corner and die. Team shotting and auto aim in this game is a serious issue. If people want cod, then there's one every year.
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3 Replieshow about people who use a controller that wish they could turn the aim assist off? I could take you without it. stop whining!
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Wished it was at least....... boring. Grats on being bored
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I hate all the posts stomping on destiny/bungie etc. But, I agree that pvp in this game is not as fun as D1. It’s taken me a while to make this decision, but I have now. 4v4 is boring and stale as it is the same for all game modes. And they have ruined trials - which was funnily enough the only thing that kept D1 afloat for large portions of the year. I’m looking forward to the dlc - but I’d really like to see some communication from bungie about their plans for the future. And whether they still think 4v4 (and while we are at it the weapon system) was a good idea after all. Oh, and rocket launchers are ridiculous in the crucible and should be removed from pvp.
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K. [spoiler][b][i][u]KUPO!!!™[/u][/i][/b][/spoiler]
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we just need 32v32 with Tanks. maybe 1v1oo maybe 500v500 anything is better than 4v4 in [b]2017[/b] alost [b][u][i]2018[/i][/u][/b]
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The slow TTK is what is ruining Destiny 2 for me. And anyone comparing buffing TTK to CoD are just using the slippery slope argument. You can't look at raw numbers and determine a solid TTK. You have to take into account the movement speed and the environment. Someone commented that the TTK is fine and that movement speed needs to be buffed. Like what? That would make PvP twice as frustrating. As it is, you are barely able to down someone before a teammate rushes in or they flee to cover. The reason teamshooting is so strong now compared to Destiny 1 has nothing to do with special ammo, abilities, or anything else. It all has to do with weak primaries. Teamshooting rarely happened in D1 because a more skilled player could outmaneuver and kill quicker. Even in the Destiny 1 universe, the primaries needed a buff to combat special weapon rushers. Now that Destiny 2 has virtually no threat from special weapons, they chose to weaken the primaries even more rather than leave them alone or even buff them? That decision is beyond me. I don't understand how they could not see the ramifications of that. It makes clutching solo plays nearly impossible. You can stand there and get the drop on someone with an AR and if you miss one or two headshots, their teammate has time to sweep in and save them or they have time to float off behind cover. That's pretty lame. All the other aspects of PvP and the reward for being good at them are sacrificed for close-knit team play. As a solo player who was improving at a pretty steady rate in D1, it is pretty obvious to me that the entirety of D2 Crucible caters only to those who have the time to seek out people to play with. And even the ones who are good at Destiny and who do play with a team are leaving in droves because of how stale the gameplay is. It is a lot more fun to 3 tap someone, dodge behind cover, pop out with a quickscope and put up a good fight in a 2 or 3v1 than it is to try to shoot one person and have their shield drop a quarter and have to hide because you're getting rained on by ARs with no way to get a kill in.
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A non pvpers take: Game modes...what year is this that not even CTF is in this game for pvp? What about unique and interesting game modes tied into the lore? Its just stand on the circle for no reason and kill everyone else....its so basic it hurts to think about it....they could have easily tied capture point to the lore but didnt. The gameplay....its boring, its the same 5 weapons vs the same 5 weapons and turns into a power weapon ammo fight which is boring....and leads to steamrolls as people with power ammo can get the next power ammo supply easier. Also there are no real non power ammo close range high damage options...it takes me like 4 punches to down an enemy....its slow and cumbersome to kill people on your own....which lowers the action and power fantasy. The reward....well all the reward sytems in the game are some of the worst ive seen in any mmo ever. yay a few tokens when i need a lot to get ONE purple loot box...yay... The motivation: the milestones and daily quests are painful when you get one you know you wont achieve or want to try to do...why not let me choose which three i have active and put a reward attached based on the tasks difficulty....id rather 3 easy tasks i can do in a few rounds for a low value reward vs the current system, im sure pros would want the higher tier tasks for high reward....let us choose? PVP Gameplay: The levels are far too spread out and open for so few players and weapons that are weak with high TTK...its boring, rarely you get both teams at a choke point and the action is fun The maps: far too spread out and open for so few players. There are no choke points or known encounter points to cater to the kind of combat destiny excels in. You have an entire class devoted to setting up a defensive point, and a support class that aids in this....but theres no point even in capture to set up any hold point....create maps with encounter locations where you know the enemy will be and you can go there and find a fight, rather than running around listening for footsteps.
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Edited by Enochua: 11/27/2017 6:49:58 AMplease, before you vote on this guy's post, please acknowledge that his use of the terminology is wrong. time to kill (TTK) is a measurement of time and not length or height. It should be slower or faster not lower or higher. Reducing the time to kill would make it slower not faster. even with aim assist for controllers, mouse and key board has major benefits over it. fact. why do you think some game devs are petitioning playstation and Microsoft to start banning people using software and other devices that enable the use of mouse and key board on consoles
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Lacking flavor I’ll agree with But if we’re gonna keep that analogy, sometimes d1 had WAY too much seasoning and it just didn’t taste good.
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2 RepliesThe skill gap in D2 is uncanny. If you are bad, you can’t tell the difference of how much better people are than you. It’s not until you start to play trials for elo and flawless becomes trivial that you start to see the real differences. Examples: game 1 against a team that is average in crucible with .8-1.0 k/d. We stomp them as if they are not even playing. Next team is closer to us but still lower in elo and k/d we still stomp them, but not as bad. Next team is similiar k/d and elo to us. It is a pretty even game and the victor varies. Next team has much higher elo than us and either stomps us or gives us a good game, but still wins. I have seen everything in between. I have stomped other teams with similiar or even better elo and k/d while having trouble against a team with a little less elo. The destiny tracker elo system really does a good job of telling you how sweaty a game will be with a few misses here and there. What I mean to say is that the skill gap in D2 is insane. I am too 500 elo on pc and have run into single players good enough to carry against us, although very rare.
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4 RepliesLove how you changed the title :)
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1 ReplyMy gripe about the pvp is guardians move too slow and the fact that the radar is always on. Really don't agree with knowing where everyone is all the time. I think it should be, if you shoot you showup on the radar, this would allow easier flanking. Also would be nice if they slighty buffed the damage for primaries and teamates also getting power ammo.
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12 RepliesEdited by Enochua: 11/26/2017 12:20:52 PMany game where there is a team vs team, you are going to have team shooting. in a arcade shooter with shields, with the guns that are reliable how fast do you want kill times to be? how many shots do you think it should take? with as much difference there is in archetypes (RoF, impact) within the same gun types, how fast should kill times be, how many shots should it take per archetypes. anything less than 1 sec or 3 shots for semis would be in the kill times of a game like COD. Sustained accurate shots on target is the name of the game. granted even with an arcade shooter with shields and clear differences in archetypes, kill times are still too slow but not by much. And with the different armor values being off as well, meaning after 4 or 5 armor values dont really add any benefit, kill times aren't accurate anyway. Regardless of how fast you make kill times within an arcade shooter, you will always have team shooting
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4 RepliesD1 shotgun sliding, ability spamming pvp is not "skill"
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6 RepliesUmmm...the aim assist on controller is there to put the controller on a more even playing field. (But, it's still not even - and that's fine.) Much harder to aim on a controller (and then track your target while shooting), and there's a lot more recoil in the weapons on a controller versus kb/m. Given players of equal skill on each control surface the kb/m person will win duels most of the time. Can't imagine emptying (and actually hitting) an entire clip from an Antiope-D in to a player and not killing them. Unless they had an overshield and were sitting in a healing rift. That's not a TTK issue, it's an ability issue. (Not yours, abilities in the game.) I would agree that I'd like to see a slightly faster TTK, but only if they make the maps a bit larger. (We don't need another COD, we already have one.)
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They should have kept it 6v6. The meta is just so dull in this game too. I do like that they made it so you basically get one super for the match. People spamming them in d1 was rough.
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12 RepliesWow i am so happy a fellow 1%er like yourself actually knows how to provide feedback CONSTRUCTIVELY. We're a rare breed in these forums
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2 RepliesAnd it was intentionally designed that way. The crucible designer said as much. https://youtu.be/VfOZLu0BQZE
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1 ReplyEdited by Karkkimies: 11/26/2017 9:13:18 PM[quote]If the time to kill were to be reduced it would eliminate the team shooting meta which would make the game more reliant on individual skill and more importantly, enjoyable to play.[/quote] So making it an instakill it would more rely on skill? LOOOOL You could just go play cod where only thing matters is who pulls the trigger first no skill needed
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6 RepliesNot as boring as reading your giant wall of text. Have fun and may RNG be forever in your favor.
