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11/16/2017 10:54:16 PM
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Bungie: Pay attention to the Battlefront 2 lawsuit
The precident set in the UK will lay a legal framework adaptable to the U.S. by keen attorneys. The argument can be made of your game, and titles with similar progression style, that they are setting a structure of gambling addiction, regardless of demographic. Doubly so for the underage children your colorful advertisements target. I'm sure the internet can assist quoting early developer interviews admitting the consultation of addiction psychologists to exploit risk-reward behavior in gamers. If you find any way to make random endgame items accessible through at-chance purchase while accepting real world currency, it would be outright gambling. Considering your entire game (D2) focus seems to favor acquiring digital vanity items over endgame or replayability (by popular opinion), AND considering that is the entire makeup of your microtransaction offerings, then it stands to reason that the endgame you've designed CAN be purchased without garunteed results. And that certainly might be considered gambling, and argued by keen attorneys here in the US of Trump...
English
#feedback
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Loot boxes should be considered a form of gambling. Nuff said there.
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24 RepliesEdited by Scorpius XX1: 11/18/2017 12:13:00 AMI'm seeing a lot of arguments from authority down there. I have a PHD in this, a degree in that, blah, blah. I won't delve any further into that or provide a resume as a supplant for an issue that's really quite simple. 1. As one of the persons below me stated quite correctly, a minor can't own a credit card, nor can they use one without a parents permission. Parents in question should do their homework and decide if there is justification for any psychological ramifications that may be incurred from purchasing loot box microtransactions in the form of unwise habitual spending. However that is entirely within their power. 2. It's stated clearly in laymans terms what items could be potentially rolled via box openings. Key point is one is getting something for their money. Gambling implies loss, not gain. It may not be the exact thing one would desire, but it's either a gain, or a trade if one is getting something for their money. Simple definitions are simple. And lastly, Case precedent formed in the UK does not apply to our system of law here in the United States. United States cases heard through it's own hearings determines precedent through adjudication This is as basic as it gets. It's exactly why we have our own Constitution, so...we..can't...be..ruled..by...the ...law...of...other...countries... Bottom line, not gambling.
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7 RepliesSir, please, for your sake and the sanity of others, lay off the marijuana. The paranoia needs to stop.
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2 RepliesEdited by Crow: 11/19/2017 11:49:00 AMIn order for there to be gambling there has to be a method of trade between people first... You cannot trade items of currency so how do you propose this "gambling" to even begin ? Explain what exactly you are claiming to be a "gambling" possibility here... Whisper from strangers are disabled unless someone enables by default... Why do you think vanity items are the focus... ? Why would people focus on vanity items in D2 when not in other games ?... Take a look around... LoL, HotS, WoW and far more games have had vanity RNG and vanity purchases for decades and no one is gambling... Try to give a decent reasoning... Unless you truly are nothing but loud barks without a bite... Could it be you believe people would gamble over a weapon skin ? -.- just pay with bright dust when its on sale... no worries all and anyone gets bright dust just by playing already... oh you mean you want every possible skin ? guess what... LoL or any other game would cost you a fortune with that mentality...
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2 RepliesNo attorney will argue this. In no way, shape, or form do you have to spend money to get what others already have. I haven't spent a dime on Bright Engrams, and I have more Bright Dust than I kmow what to do with. Not to mention, you can buy stuff straight from Eververse when it is being sold.
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3 RepliesUgh. That's like saying Pokemon Cards are gambling... and it's my retort every time. It just isn't gambling. You will always get something for your purchase. You will never walk away, empty handed, with nothing of value. You will never not have something for your money. You will never get something if you lose in a real gamble. That's how gambling makes the money that it does. It can't afford to give everyone something. It only ever gives a select few something. What you use as 'gambling' you probably, and rightfully, once thought of as just rarity. That's all it is, rarity verses value. Not... nothing verses value. Face it, if this is gambling, then every card game ever created that has 'chances' for rare cards needs to be scraped because nearly every kid the last 80 years has had at least some taste or fascination with this sort of thing. And if you need a much more recent example... how about the Halo megablock mini-figures? I remember vividly that you could buy these little bags that you couldn't see into that contained a set few figures of the series. Of course, each of them randomly were assigned those mini-figures, so you never knew which one you could get. Turn that bag into an engram shape and what do you have... the Destiny loot system of real money. Yet, no one is calling for that to end. It's just not going to happen. Also if it's not just the concept, but rather the platform of being online, that makes this 'gambling' situation have merit... I call bull on that too. Again, no child should either have the ability/funds to actively pursue a gambling addiction even if it was gambling... which it isn't. That's simply bad parenting. -- End of the day, it's either all or nothing. Either make all loot boxes and all 'chance' purchases in all stores and all platforms that are available to minors illegal... or leave it alone because, in the end, you're picking and choosing rather than actually addressing what you perceive to be a wide spread problem.
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2 RepliesEdited by Crow: 11/20/2017 7:30:10 AMI asked you before but all you said as a response to if you where all bark but no bite regarding your statement lacking facts was literally "Woof"... This kinda solidifies the fact that you are trolling for attention... Where are the so called "Gambling" possibilities ? 1. You cannot Trade 2. Strangers cannot whisper you unless you manually enable or add them as friends 3. Bright Engrams only contain Vanity items which everyone can obtain... Could you at least "think" before you post random stuff... This post is a good example of the real only issue Destiny 2 has... Salty sheep who move around without mind or logic along with multiple fake accounts to upvote themselves...
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9 RepliesDo in no small part to the lawsuit you reference, the Reddit down vote debacle, and recent Metacritic score of 0.9, EA has at least temporarily disabled the purchase of micro transactions until a more favorable system can be put in place and implemented. Amazing what a gaming community can accomplish when they stick together and fight the establishment towards one common goal. You see, we as gamers do process a power to make a difference.
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4 RepliesIn the US, we're all about keeping the consumer free to spend his or her money however they want. And by "we" I mean [i]corporations[/i] and by "free" I mean [i]gullible.[/i]
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3 RepliesLame! Double lame for bringing trumps name into it lmao.
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So why is eververse not gambling if Battelfront loot crates is gambling?
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3 RepliesEdited by PhantomBrown: 11/18/2017 7:23:17 AMUK had nothing to do with this, it's in Belgium you uncultured git.
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19 RepliesThen by definition all loot based games that incorporate RNG into the loot system vs earning "x" amount of currency to buy "item x" are gambling. Gambling doesn't necessarily mean i have to spend money to be gambling. My time spent getting 20 tokens to turn into a vendor for an engram that I jave no idea what I'm going to get is, technically, gambling. Instead of money being neing the currency to purchase said engram, my time is the currency used to earn the tokens ro spend at the vendor for the engram that may or may not give me what i want. What it really comes down to is people need to start using some common sense. Whether it be buying silver for bright engrams in hopes of getting the desired item or farming particular tokens for a chance at the desired item. I can't help but believe that there are dar more people spending more time than they should be collecting tokens to turn into vendors for an engram that jas no guarantee of rewarding the desired item than their are people spending money on bright engrams in hopes of the desired item, especially with as easy as it is to earn xp towards earning a bright engram.
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1 ReplySo i guess that means opening trading card packs is gambling too or anything similar to that.
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54 RepliesNot going to happen. Loot boxes aren't gambling. 1. In real gambling, when you lose, you are left with NOTHING. You just lose your money. Which is why gambling is sometimes snarkily called "The Tax Upon the Foolish". 2. That is not the same as buying a lootbox and not LIKING what you got. Or not getting the specific ITEM that you wanted. You will always get some sort of in-game content of value..and the game has no way of knowing what it is any particular player SPECIFICALLY wants. Also anything that you get (if you "win") has little to no real world value away from the game. 3. If there is any process addiction (addiction to an activity, rather than a substance) that lootboxes are likely to trigger, it is addiction to SHOPPING (which is what it really is) not addiction to gambling. 4. Please don't invoke children. Because you can't make real money in-game purchases without access to a valid credit card number, and a minor cannot legally own one. So there is no possibility of a child becoming "addicted" unless a parent is allowing them to spend from a credit card in an unsupervised manner...and without any sort of limits. Which is a separate conversation. Lootboxes are becoming a shitty---and all too common---microtransaction technique that tries to leverage some people's inability to resist the "impulse buy" or other emotional buying patterns. But this is NOT gambling.
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5 RepliesEdited by Crow: 11/19/2017 10:26:32 AMmr. randomname you should pay attention to the contents of that lawsuit... you are trying to compare apples with potatoes... This post proves once again that the majority on forums at the moment are salty trolls who are incapable of reading... People blame community managers for game design... People blame server not being dedicated for stability... People blame them saying they are subject to a lawsuit... People cry for response but hate on any response when they get it... 1. you are targeting the wrong guy... do not shoot the messenger... 2. you should learn about hosting... their current solution is the best possible for this game... 3. The Night King already explained this well but basicly dont compare apples with potatoes... 4. If all you get is hatred for responding would you do it ? communication is the fault of you who blindly upvoted toxic trash like this opening poster...
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Gambling or not. Makes no difference to me. If i had children they wouldn't play Destiny, Battlefront 2, Overwatch or any game with micro transactions. But if you look at the core loot system of Destiny. It is currently and always will be a slot machine. The Planet NPC's are just slot machines with human skins over top of them. So why are we now discussing gambling? It's been here all along. For all this micro transaction stuff to die. We as gamers have to swear it all off...Microtransactions, RNG loot systems the whole nine yards. We the gamers drive this pattern. We control where it goes. We can argue on forums and down vote on redditt . But when cash stops flowing. Then and only then will developers stop .
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5 RepliesThere is a standard in law called the “reasonable person test.” In evaluating whether there is some liability in a situation, the court will attempt to determine what a “reasonable person” would expect/do in a given situation. For D2, here is one possible reasonable person question: Given the microtransactions and shallow story of D1, would a reasonable person expect the same in D2 or expect something different? I think the answer to that question is that a reasonable person would expect D2 to have microtransactions and a shallow story just like D1 did. Now, since a reasonable person would expect what we got, what is your legal case? Given the trend towards in-game purchases throughout gaming in general, what is your case? In Clash of Clans and myriad other titles, you can indeed spend real world dollars to “buy” your way to victory. Given the fact that pay to win systems are all over the gaming world, why would a reasonable person not expect some version of that to develop here? I don’t like it at all. I don’t think paying $60 for a game, and then paying even more through in-game purchases is a good thing. However, the trend towards this business model is continuing and a reasonable person knows this. I think D2 is a profound disappointment. It is a step backwards (heck, several steps backwards) from where we all were with Age of Triumph. Is it something you could win a lawsuit over? No way.
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21 RepliesI would delete the game INSTANTLY if I could get my money back!! The game is truly terrible and the fact Bungie needs our input to make the game better tells you how under qualified they are to make this game!
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1 ReplyIf you believe this in D2 then your level of intelligence is that of a rock. Please keep your opinion to yourself. Thanks. Bye.
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2 RepliesThis is one of the dumbest posts I’ve ever read
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2 RepliesWhat claw machine did you pull your law degree out of?
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8 RepliesIf I had rolled my eyes any harder they would have flown out of my skull and bounced off the wall beside me. Can we please just have the apocalypse already!? Ffs
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1 ReplyI woke up and the salt on my salt is like finding Fed's at defcon. Good morning, Bungie employees!
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[quote]Considering your entire game (D2) focus seems to favor acquiring digital vanity items over endgame or replayability (by popular opinion), AND considering that is the entire makeup of your microtransaction offerings, then it stands to reason that the endgame you've designed CAN be purchased without garunteed results. And that certainly might be considered gambling, and argued by keen attorneys here in the US of Trump...[/quote] Which article are you citing? The one read about the Belgium authorities investigating states "gambling in a pay-to-win structure - having a chance to buy gear that gives distinct play based advantages." All Bungie's items are cosmetic, and according to Deej (perhaps they saw this coming), [i]Friendship [/i]is Destiny's endgame. Either way, this seems to be a digital version of the US's law regulating chase cards in card games such as Magic and Pokemon.
