{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
10/31/2017 8:05:24 PM
24
Valid discussion on Hunter Class and buffs/nerfs, which subclass is weakest?
Hi!
I've been a hunter since D1. Not anymore. I am a warlock now, started as a hunter and transferred.
Why?
Because I feel the hunter is incredibly underpowered in comparison to other classes in the current game state.
okay, but WHY is it underpowered IMO?
Because the class doesn't DO anything, and not only that but when I play it I can feel myself NOT. DOING. ANYTHING. Now let me give more detail because that's still ambiguous. When I play a class in destiny, or any RPG for that matter, I like to look at the pros and cons and what the class offers me, or my party, as I'm sure any seasoned player of the genre does. So that is what I base my rating of the hunter class on, the question of:
"What does this class do for me, and or with it what can I offer to my fireteam?"
To start here are my destiny qualifications for my opinion.
D1: Max light level completed all expansions and raids on the hunter, hit 300 light on both warlock and titan as well. Tried out all subclasses on all classes.
D2: completed raid on my hunter, as well as hit 290 or higher with all 3 classes, with my warlock being 304, (just crap duplicate rng on the powerful gear for my last few pieces to get 305) . Tried out all subclasses on all classes.
So...
What does gunslinger offer me and or my team?
GUNSLINGER:
--golden gun "gg", 3 shot, 6 shot, or celestial option
-note: golden gun is probably the most standard pvp option, it provides good damage, is applied easily, and is fairly forgiving if not executed to perfection (unless for some reason you're running celestial in pvp). It provides the team with reliable boss damage and veteran mob control and in PVP reliable wiping of the enemy team, as shooting 3-6 shots of golden gun for a 1 hit is not difficult as long as the enemy is somewhere near your location when active.
--incendiary grenades provide dot effect, seeker grenade does seeking things, and tripmine allows a flank ward in pvp, and provides essentially a standard blast in PVE.
- note: most hunter grenades are not very strong. tripmine usually doesnt kill because nobody walks into the point blank proximity when setting it off, it is not hard to see, seeker usually doesnt kill because in PVP it seeks which is balanced with low damage and PVE the seeks split between enemies damaging all and killing nothing, and incendiary grenade explosion is weak and is only supplimented by a small dot, which is only more useful for preventing rapidly healing enemies from healing, which there are really none of.
Path Options:
--Throwing knife melee ability
a reset on precision kills or explosive damage equivalent to guns with explosive rounds.
-note: the reset is just not reliable, in both PVE or PVP, and the explosive damage bonus for how long the knife is on cooldown is not rewarding based on cooldown length and taking up a perk slot.
--precision kills grant you increased reload speed, stacks 3 times.
-note: great if you're killing a crap ton of tier 1 mobs. Nothing noticeable occurs vs veteran mobs because the ttk is longer than the timer of the stacking effect unless you are performing a very low level task in comparison to your light.
--increased precision damage on golden gun.
-note: all around just a good bonus, applicable to most everything in the game, and is a noticeable damage bonus.
--precision damage increases duration on golden gun
-note: Not good. The 6 shooter would benefit from this but its not in the same path, and with 3 shots theres no way you don't shoot off 3 shots within the given timer, let alone it is not hard to headshot big slow bosses meaning the extra time to pull off additional headshots is irrelevant, and celestial benefits 0 from this perk, which is relevant because bonus precision damage on GG means this is the tree you should be running for celestial.
Class abilities:
--marksman dodge
reloads your gun as you dodge.
-note: limited applicability, while reloading is essential to a shooter, in PVP getting a dodge off to reload an engage another opponent is not as great as it may appear, as everyone is running similar loadouts right now due to meta, if I engage somebody with Uriels and they fire back, if I win the trade i am injured, getting an instant reload off i am now faced against another Uriels with less than full health on my end. I am dead unless the guardian across from me is playing with 1 hand. ALso as a side note, teamshotting is a thing in trials so 1 v 1 is never going to happen. In PVE this is somewhat useful, as the dodge is quick enough to escape most mob bullets and you most certainly can take down a lot of tier 1 mobs from an injured state with a full clip on the right gun, however, comparative to the titans duck shield, as in you duck behind it an it reloads your weapon, this ability is severely lacking, the titan can provide both cover AND unlimited reloads for the duration, while the hunter can only displace and save himself and only offers one immediate reload.
--Gamblers dodge
refills melee energy IF next to an enemy while dodging.
-note: for golden gun (and we will get to the other subclasses) this does next to nothing. Reloading a disregardable melee ability in PVP gives you two disregardable melee abilities, not to mention you risk reloading it by standing near enemies.
Mobility:
YEEEEAAAAAAH this is what the hunter was made for I'm going to jump up-- oh wait there's a barrier there--.... HOW ABOUT OVER --NOPE, good thing I have really good in air accura-- I missed every shot as I fell.
High jump: double jump focused on jumping higher
strafe jump: double jumping focused on directional control
or triple jump: which is a little of both in the form of 3 jumps.
Overall solid, valid choice between 3 jumps although I always take triple it is easy to validate any jump over the others. However once again what does this get me?
Nothing more than any other class, which some would say is not a bad thing but when a class, like the hunter, is created with mobility in mind, and yet gains no advantage from mobility, then we have a negative viewpoint of the outcome, not a neutral one. Why give hunters advantageous jumps if they are not allowed to jump into advantageous positions on the map?
Why can't I jump way up on that pillar and snipe down on people?
Well the easy answer is map balance in crucible, and maybe it is a valid point, and in PVE the AI's have no way of dealing with players who can reach them but they cant reach the player, "think icebreaker sniping in D1 nightfall," again another valid point, however you have now given a class an "advantage" which is then balanced with other disadvantages, and then removed access for that class to use its advantage, thus leaving it with only the disadvantages for having increased mobility.
The sunbringer (is that what its called I main voidwalker and they changed the names of these classes) has the ability, actually buffed from D1, to float in the air without an accuracy penalty and shoot down on enemies whether in PVE or PVP, a class that has nothing to do with mobility, has better aerial precision than the mobility class, and even has an exotic to enhance that ability. ( exotics will mostly be left out of this because that topic, which also infuriates me as a hunter, is simply too much to go over within this massive thread I'm writing.) Point being the hunters mobility is really just lacking, and if there is any actual movespeed increase, its hardly noticeable, and not nearly anymore relevant when it comes to living through the raid or pvp, as bungie has ensured no part of the raid has to be accompanied by a particular class. Not to mention I've never made it or not made it behind cover and thought "if i was/nt my hunter I wouldve/nt have lived/died there," because as I mentioned the movespeed bonus is minor at best.
Now.. this was only the gunslinger, FORTUNATELY I do not need to cover class abilities (except glancing at melee recharge) or jumping again. It will only be Supers, grenades, and Paths.
EDIT **** SORRY GUYS there's a max word limit and I hit in during arcstrider discussion so I'll comment in this thread the rest of my opinion on the subclasses.
Okay, so I usually get most of my information from youtube, patch notes, etc.
I've basically heard that the community doesn't treat bungie fair because all they do is complain.
I've heard that bungie doesn't treat the community fair because they don't share info well and wont fix things.
I try to stay away from that on both ends, but we as a community SHOULD give valid responses to issues we see in the game, not just "THIS SUCKS ASS BUNGIE I HATE YOU." If you want bungie to respond more often I'm sure they'd do so if we as a community give them something valid to respond to.
So...
On this post if you choose to contribute should be based on the following:
if you do not like something that is okay, HOWEVER; provide why you think it is not good with some sort of evidence if not an explanation, and then follow through with, I would rather see _________ instead.
If you do like something please state why you like it and why you wouldn't change it.
-
It's almost as if bungie just picked out perks and bonuses and randomly put them on the subclass trees without actually seeing if they have good synergy, or even work together.
-
Gunslinger needs a armor increase while the super is active
-
Arcstider is miss understood, Gunslinger is only as good as your aim, and nightstalker is going through puberty.
-
1 ReplyI think a few things need a buff tbh but I'm probably biased. - Golden gun needs a combustion perk on the bottom tree. - Tripmine grenade could use a damage buff. - Six shooter is stupid, I purposely didn't unlock it. To be fair, I don't know what should replace it that would be balanced, but it annoys me that I miss out on a perk because it sucks so bad. - Arc staff needs a speed buff, that's all. - Shadow shot needs to one hit in PvP and tether/suppress A LOT quicker. Basically do what it's meant to do. The fact that the titan's suppression grenade works better than shadow shot really pisses me off. - The class ability/dodge needs a cool down reduction. I really enjoy using it but considering it does sh*t all, it should be available to use quicker. - Mobility should do a little more to the jump. I love running high mobility for strafing fast as hell, but a jump bonus would be nice. Again, I'm probably way too biased but to me, all these would make hunters a viable option to play as.
-
1 ReplyI would say the way of the outlaw tree for gunslingers because of the six shooter duration being so short but there is a buff coming to it that increases the time whenever you get a kill. So I narrow it down to Arcstrider since the movement speed with super is really slow compared to striker's super. Another super that's a bit of a problem is the nightstalker's shadowshot not one shotting anyone in PVP, especially since it doesn't home in on targets anymore. At the very least should supress them on hit. Also with hunters in general, not being able to get past 6 recovery can be pretty annoying, especially when there are some leg armor that says "improved recovery" but doesn't actually give any.
-
4 RepliesGamblers dodge is great on arcstrider... Dodge grants melee, melee grants Dodge, melee kills really buff melee damage for 20 seconds and you get health back... Arcstrider could use a speed buff during super. Gunslinger NEEDS combustion for the bottom/pve perks. It's the only super in the game that can't do ad control... And combustion really went with "the lone wolf who lives for the perfect shot" shoot one enemy surrounded, kill 4 or 5 Obviously something is wrong with nightstalker, because I never use it (haven't gotten rigs yet) and I did all the time in d1. In pvp way of the trapper is actually pretty strong, as invis Dodge makes a huge difference as opposed to d1 If I had my choice of one subclass change in the whole game, I would want combustion back on gunslinger... Nothing was as satisfying as creating 4 or 5 or 6 orbs with one well timed shot.
-
2 Replies1 word: recovery. As much as I have been loving Hunter and all it’s Knucklehead glory, the recovery stat really hurts it in comparison to Titans and Warlocks. At least they get quickfang.
-
2 RepliesIf the hunter could get their recovery past a mediocre 6 (without mods max) and had a pulse grenade on acrstrider, I would have zero beef with the hunter.
-
2 RepliesARCSTRIDER: --Melee abilties: Disorient an enemy and nearby enemies on melee hit, or killing enemies WITH THIS MELEE ABILITY, triggers health regen and increases melee damage I believe for 15 seconds. ( I main nightstalker). -note: Neither is good here's why, disorienting the immediate enemies only helps if they rush you behind cover, you could never use this ability offensively because almost every room is evenly distributed with enemies, meaning if you stun the ones in front, the ones in back, usually with snipers, are still going to be shooting you, and in PVP meleeing enemies from the front with this does not stop them from shooting at you, and if you meleed them youre obviously standing right in front of them, unless youd like to argue using both your melee AND class ability are worth A kill. Health regen on kill would be good if it didnt HAVE to be the melee ability to trigger it, if it was any melee ability, be it swords, super, or melee, it would be very viable both in PVP or PVE, it would be 15 seconds of sustained melee output against hordes of enemies in PVE or a healthier chance at a team wipe on PVP with regen between guardian kills. For reference void walker melee ability devour gives a 9 second timer in which by using any means necessary getting a kill will not only heal you(instantly) but reset the timer as well. Grendades: Do you know which grenade is OP right now? The arc pulse grenade! Guess which arc class is the only arc class not allowed to have it? THE ARCSTRIDER YOU GUESSED IT WOW! Guess what they do have? Arcbolt- chains lightning for damage, think riskrunner in form of grenade. Flux- Sticky grenade from Halo, mild seeking ability when thrown accurately enough at an enemy, very similiar to magnetic for you titans out there. Skip grenade- imagine a dud fountain firework at the fourth of july and then the few sparks that spurted on the ground before it died ended up seeking you out and doing 2 damage. note: Flux is solid, its a sticky grenade, generally practical for most cases, good damage, It usually kills if you stick somebody in PVP, Arcbolt chains, and CAPS OUT WHY at like 5 people without the exotic, not practical in pvp because 1) the enemy team isnt standing around each other like that 99% of the time and 2) it doesnt kill because its easy to land ( for some reason this is a running theme in the hunter class) and the skip grenade is so terrible I just skip over it when making a grenade choice. It's actually worse than axion bolt because at least axion provides zone control by staying up if nobody triggers the seekers. Paths: top path: melee kills recharge your dodge, dodging increases your melee range, and after dodging your arcstrider super hits create and arc aftershock bottom path: when shields are off both melee and grenade energy recharge quicker, sprinting recharges your dodge ability and increases maximum sprint speed and you are harder to kill while dodging. The easiest way to look at these paths are top = PVE and bottom = PVP. I think the paths themselves are solid, offering chances on the top tree to recharge dodge quickly by meleeing, (this is paired with the regen melee) and then dodging to increase your ability to land those melees with increased range, and finally your arcstrider will be doing a bunch of aftershock damage to nearby enemies ensuring you can take on mobs more successfully even thought the staff is a single target attack. The bottom path allows for pvp players to generate more grenades and disorient melees by rewarding close gunfights, as a lot of player engagements in PVP can bring you to red health, especially since everyone is using the same gun the damage and ttks will always be very close. sprinting faster and recharging your dodge ability is also good as it is allowing the arcstrider to move across the map more quickly and, be more acrobatic while engaging enemies. The final perk allows for damage reduction while vaulting in arcstrider, which as I apparently found out today, you can infinitely vault in arcstrider (I had no idea there is no description anywhere in the game that would give somebody that idea you'd have to just panic spam on accident to find out or eventually read up on it like i did, ive also seen nobody use this out of all the arcstriders ive seen in pvp). Again overall I actually feel that the paths in acrstrider are solid, but because of the crap choice in grenades, low powered melee abilties, and the fact that using dodge(outside of arcstrider) is not very useful, makes the class very one dimensional overall. Youre a super one trick, and you dont get to use that one trick often.
-
11 RepliesI voted "none silly" as a D1 beta to D2 hunter main. Gunslinger works good in any activity period. Better in pve then it did in D1. arc strider is amazing in pve. both in add clear with roll melee loop and raiden flux makes the super out last and out damage every other super including celestial nighthawk headshot. Pvp wise bottom tree gives you insane uptime on all abilities. it's super is "weaker" here but if you know how to use it like me you net 2-3 kills per use. Nightstalker is orb city and unlimited super in pve. in pvp keen scout+ invis dodge+ smoke and super popping as enemies on the minimap make it a very strong neutral game. If hunters feel weak to you it's probably either the low recovery we're stuck to or that it's class ability is a "does a thing" ability rather than an in your face powerful ability like the other 2 class abilities. Doesn't make the hunter weak though.
-
1 ReplyI don't mean to be rude but I really don't agree. I've played all 3 classes and all 9 subclasses. I think the three best subclasses for PVE are Nightstalker, Gunslinger, and Striker(if you noticed, 2 of those are Hunter subclasses). Gunslinger is easily the best DPS class and precision kills generate orbs. Which means you can either use Celestial Nighthawk(generate 2-4 orbs) or take the 3 shots to generate 8-9 orbs. The knife reset is great for low level adds, and you get your super faster with precision shots. Nightstalker is the best add control, basically because instead of just killing one or two sets of adds and losing your super, it will continually tether adds for the team. If you place it right you can get 3 waves of adds. And wearing Orpheus Rigs will guarantee you already have your super back so you can get more waves of adds. And of course the Arcstrider super may be tough to use to its full potential but its middle game is pretty solid for PVP. Anyways, I've done several Leviathan runs and I've noticed where (I personally feel)certain subclasses rise above the others. So the best team to me would be 3 Gunslingers(2 running Celestial, 1 running the 3 shots), 1 Nightstalker, 1 Striker, and 1 Stormtrance. Also the fastest run I had was with 5 Hunters and a Striker, so... This was longer than I thought it would be, sorry.
-
3 RepliesPeople actually think Arcstrider is the worst? You can wipe out whole teams in PvP.
-
Direct hit tethers should kill, and arc strider needs to be a lot faster. Besides that, I feel like they're fine.
-
3 RepliesI think arc strider has a strong class and a lightly weak super. The ability to synergize melee and dodge. PvP bonuses are good, gain super while sprinting, harder to kill in dodge, regenerate ammo or melee energy with dodge. Its actually not bad, just highly specialized, it does one thing and one thing very well and that is synergy between abilities.
-
Edited by Gibs: 11/1/2017 8:38:54 PMOverall the Hunter is in a pretty good place in my opinion. There are a few things I would like to see though; 1) [b]Evade could use a slight buff[/b], its just not quite as useful in PVE as the Barrier or Rift mechanic. Personally I would like to see the buff come in the way of Exotic armour choices. i.e. for a short period after using evade you take reduced damage etc. 2) [b]Acrstrider needs a little more mobility[/b], I would like to see a Hunter specific Exotic Sword that works in enhanced mobility while using it and when in super form. i.e. Katana, you progressively run faster while wielding this weapon, while using the arc strider super your attacks teleport you a short distance towards the target. 3) More viable Exotics in general, however this could be said for any of the three classes. Hunters probably just have it slight worse off at the moment. Overall, on PC Hunters feel really really strong....there mobility is seriously impressive and Gunslinger and Nightstalker are both very handy in PVP and PVE.
-
1 ReplyBuff mobility. Buff arcstrider speed while in super Add the removed aerial attack for arcstrider
-
1 ReplyHunters are still fun. All classes are good if the player behind them is good . Im a living example of that
-
I think the reason the Hunter feels underpowered is the lackluster recovery stat on most of the Hunter armor. A lot of people, including myself, have noticed that there is a significant difference in recovery’s numerical value, in contrast with agility and resilience, which would explain why the Warlock feels the most powerful right now. I wish the stats were like that of D1, where they were determined by subclass setup, not armor. But for the moment, I think the Hunter needs a buff to its overall armor. As for the subclasses, the only one I feel is underpowered would have to be the Arcstrider. But I think buffing it should be handled carefully. While it’s lackluster right now, I do see the potential for it to become an overpowered subclass, with the ranged strike and the slam having the most potential for this outcome.
-
2 RepliesWas never a big hunter fan in D1 but I really like the Rig/shadow shot combo. Nothing like getting your super back while your super is still up.
-
5 RepliesEdited by ETH3RSCUR3: 11/1/2017 2:30:42 PMMarksman Dodge: I use it to reload my power ammo tbh. The reload time on rockets takes ages, so I just do a little spin and I'm back in the game. However, I've used it to dodge ppl's supers, and strafe during gunfights. Just got to get creative with how you use it. Imo
-
1 ReplyNIGHTSTALKER: --shadowshot, anchors a tether to the ground, tethering any enemies within range with no maximum cap on enemies tethered, increasing damage dealt against them, while disorienting them and lowering all reaction speeds while tethered, as well as chaining (sharing) damage dealt among all other tethered enemies. --Melee abilties: disorienting smoke, or invisiblity powder. -note: I find disorienting smoke runs into the same issues as disorienting blow in the arcstrider class, except it can be deployed from a greater range, (thrown as a grenade), so it can be useful to such effects as being a flash bang which allows the nightstalker essentially both a lethal and non lethal form of crowd control in terms of grenades, which can be nice. however it should not be used generally speaking as a means of close combat as previously stated enemies in back will not be disoriented and you will be gunned down trying to make any use of your melee in a large crowd, especially since it is nothing but a standard melee after the grenade is thrown. It is also an okay choice in PVP as it allows for you to disrupt the sight of enemy players from range allowing you to try and out position and outgun the blinded target as they can only shoot at your last known location and this time you arent standing right in front of them. The invisibility powder in PVP is not as good however, it can cloak both you and your team mates but ever since the halo days bungie has really nerfed their idea of invisibility in PVP into the dust. Unless you are not moving and crouched you are seen just as easily as being uncloaked, as you are marked by arc energy coursing over you providing a disrupted cloak effect. In PVE however this can be much more beneficial, enemies will only shoot at your last known location no matter how obviousl you move around the map "invisibly" making for a great medic (watch out though they still shoot at ghosts of dead team mates) combine this with the dodge ability and you can reset your melee ability around enemies. Allowing for a cloak reset when running through crowds. The only drawback to this method is trying to activate the melee ability at close range can trigger a normal knife, as the grenades are only deployed from range and bungie has scripted "panic knifes" to override throwing invisibility powder at close range enemies, with good intentions of course but when you stab an enemy and youre trying to cloak it can get pretty awkward really fast. Grenades: Voidwall- throws a line of void flame onto the ground damaging enemies in a straight line over a period of time. spike- throw essentially a tripmine grenade but it emites void light like a functional fountain firework this time for a period of time, titans also had this grenade in D1. Vortex grenade- AoE grenade intial damage w/ dot AoE. Overall excellent grenade choice for the NightStalker all options give good area control options as well as killing targets off pretty quickly, however the AI seems to be smarter about not standing in the voidwall effect as much as this did in D1. In pvp none of these grenades will kill on impact but vortex is pretty standard and will pick up a few kills here and there. Paths: I know what youre thinking " wow NightStalkers looking pretty great right now compared to the other two it must be the most viable" yes it is, but here's where nightstalker loses some power Top path: sprint and sneak faster, tethered enemies are marked, void anchors become traps and do not deploy until enemies are actually within radius, increased range and last longer, dodging makes you invisible. this is paired with the DISORIENT melee ability. bottom path: grenade effects (melee grenades not included) last twice as long increasing damage potential for AoE as it lasts longer, Killing tethered enemies creates orbs of light, and increases all forms of armor stats for nearby allies, fire multiple (3) shadow shots. -(does not work with orpheus rig) - paired with INVISIBILTY melee ability. first of all, switch the melee abilities, stack all of the invisibility on one path, it makes a more obvious PVE vs PVP selection as well as just buffing either path for its job, more invis means better PVE and disorient means better PVP. second, top path void anchors become traps is irrelevant, nobody shoots the void anchor away from enemies, its a useless advantage and marking tethered enemies does nothing as there are GIANT SHADOW TETHERS reaching out and grabbing targets, I think I know which enemies I hit with the tether, and I think my team mates know where they are( if they can even see that). Killing tethered enemies on the bottom path should also be moved, the triple shadow shot has reduced tether range and duration so why increase orb generation on the skill tree that decreases the chance to do so, the upper one increases tether range and time it would be more appropriate up there. Increasing armor stats (mobility regen and resistance) on allies is probably so irrelevant at end game level that once again it is a fake advantage, not to mention there is no display stating how much was gained or how long it lasts. 3 shadow shots is fine as shadow shot does more damage to enemies youve hit with it, allowing a pseudo gunslinger effect to kick in, however it is not fatal to hit enemies in PVP with a single shadowshot, I believe it is the ONLY super that does not instantly kill, not to mention once the shadowshot is deployed for both the top and bottom skill trees, no player is going to walk into it, making it useless beyond its initial shot(s), oh and the tethers can be shot and destroyed by enemy players. The confusion among the paths with synergies as well as such a weak PVP performance is really what brings the nightstalker down a few too many notches. So.. OVERALL, I feel Hunter class ability: limited at best Gunslinger: mediocre grenades, weak melee abilities, Strong basis for a boss killer super, limited path powerups. Arcstrider: flux grenade or bust, weak melee abilities, Strong basis for a skirmish super, good super support from path but nothing else. Nightstalker: excellent grenade choice, backwards melee abilities(and casting them when you want can fail sometimes that is unique to Hunter), Strong basis for a supportive super, backwards path support in the trees for the corresponding shadowshot modifiers.
-
3 RepliesDude you suck, I main Hunter they’re perfectly fine. FYI I Mained Warlock for 80% of D1
-
4 RepliesWhat you’re missing about Gunslinger is that they make the most orbs in the game with the sharpshooter attunement. I know, horrible right. And the damage is better than you lead on. Arcstrider with the Raiden flux chest is one of the absolute best ad clearing classes in the game. It also crushes high level enemies and even bosses.
-
There all pretty good
