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10/19/2017 1:48:12 AM
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Except this is entertainment media that has to be purchased before it can be used. People have a right to reasonable expectation when it comes to purchased products (toothbrushes with bristles, diapers that are not pre-loaded with sh*t, etc).
[b]I'm not saying participation trophies are the answer[/b], but a business model that says "you're all going to pay the same amount, but some of you will get less product/access than others" is surefire way to kill your brand. Guided Games is proof that Bungie is aware of this issue.
[b][u]This isn't real life accomplishment[/u][/b], raid completion is not equivalent to being promoted at work, it's very important that people be able to distinguish between reality and fantasy. Its a product, a video game, designed to make money when (and after) you buy it and the best way to do that is by making your product as broadly appealing as possible and as accessible as possible, to as many people as possible.
Bungie was trying to do this, but like most things related to Destiny, they completely and utterly failed.
It's not an issue of "going soft" its an issue of Bungie having no f*#@ing clue how to tailor the experience to casual [i]and[/i] hardcore players.
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Respectful question, what is wrong with challenge? I always buy games that offer challenges. To me they are more fun than say Bejeweled.
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I never said there was anything wrong with challenge. The problem is people losing perspective and equating Raid completions to real life accomplishments and then advocating to keep as many other people as possible from accessing content they've paid for because it would invalidate a false sense of achievement. The challenge in Raids is present, however the complaint, currently, is that the Raid players no longer feel special/rewarded because they don't have amazing gear that the majority of the player base doesn't. At that point it's not about being challenged, its about parading around and being a special snowflake. In a game like this, you have to have balanced activities that cater to a broad number of players. Bungie hasn't figured this out yet.
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True, it can be said about trials as well.
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Rewards and challenges and whatnot are a whole other topic (that Bungie screwed up). I was just trying to dispel the idea that achievements in video games are equal to their real life counterpart.. I skipped coffee today so I'm not sure how effective I was.
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Excellent counterpoint!
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Agreed with you up until the last two sentences. 1. Bungie didn't fail. 2. You can't make hardcore gamers happy in a game like this, with this kind of economic model. There just aren't enough resources available. The people bitching about Destiny 2, are the same people who were bitching about Destiny 1. They're just complaining about DIFFERENT things. Which is why Bungie took the game in the direction they did. They knew that they'd NEVER be able to make enough content or tailor the game to truly make the people who are complaining happy. The only thing that would happen is the things they complain about would shift.
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Nah, as a year 2 player, I never bitched about D1 (special ammo economy changes excluded) but there are some serious issues here.
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Well the 50% loss in sales and 3 million loss in players since release doesn't seem to be helping the brand.
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I saw it on sale a few days back for almost half off. And yes, a 50% drop for the US and UK is pretty bad for "the most anticipated game of 2017" as some media outlets were declaring lol
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Edited by zNapSack: 10/19/2017 3:25:49 AMYou're both right, in a way. It's true that no one likes to lose. Regardless, everyone wants to feel as though they accomplished something since they paid for the opportunity to engage in it. However, that said, it doesn't dismiss the fact they're sometimes rewarded with what amounts to a participation trophy. That is partially due to the fact there is no standard level of skill required in order to play Destiny, either release. Anyone can buy the game and play it. However, in D1, the more difficult an activity one completed the better the rewards were. That's how the real world works. One is awarded only for accomplishing that which is deemed worthy of a reward, and which can vary by level of accomplishment: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Conversely, those accustomed to being rewarded with what amount to participation trophies, regardless of whether or not they actually completed anything of significance, if at all, will at some point likely find themselves in for a rude awakening. I say that because the rest of the world doesn't always work the way one may be accustomed to, regardless of where they live.
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A video game isn't the real world. Which is the reason why people play them.
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For time away from real life, if you are 18+. People try to enjoy themselves in a fantasy world. Let's make it good. D2 vanilla has a lot of good stuff, but some bad as well. We just want it good as soon as possible.
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Edited by zNapSack: 10/20/2017 12:58:41 AMYes, it's a video game. So what? We live and play Destiny in the real world and complaints with regard to Destiny are made by real people. When one is rewarded something in the game, or not, if affects how they feel and those feelings are real. And if one is not satisfied with what they paid to play that feeling is real as well. That was real world money spent to participate in a video game. So stating a "A video game isn't the real world" in that regard is simply not true. So get real!
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A video game is not the real world.
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Really? I never would've guessed. See my reply to your same statement above.
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Which was my reply. People play games to [i]get away[/i] from the real world. Not have all its problems, unfairness and negativity follow them. YMMV.
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D2's,DLC#3 will tell the fate of the Destiny franchise...
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You aren't buying the rewards, you are buying the opportunity to get them. If you can't put in the time, then you probably have more important things to do in your life, and complaining about not being able to get them shows you have awful priorities.
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You are buying an entertainment product. One that has to compete with TONS of other entertainment media for the person's time and attention. If you make the game so difficult that your customer finds the experience more frustrating than fun one of two things are going to happen. 1. A small number of people---who's self-image is tied to their skill as a gamer----will knuckle down and keep chipping away at it until they master it. 2. The vast majority will take that game out of their PC or their console....and go play or do something else that they find fun. Keep ON doing this, and these people will simply stop buying your products altogether....and the developer loses money and the ability to make games. Because investors can make more money backing projects targeted at the "average/casual" gamer, than at tiny fraction of people who are free to spend several hours a day playing a game.
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Are you saying I'm complaining about not being able to get them? I can't tell. My point was Bungies inability to balance the game to a point where everyone who pays the entry fee has a chance, at some point, to access the content in a way they choose to. Ironically, its the players that say things like "If you can't put in the time", "Git gud", "Do the work" that Bungie created with D1 and drove away a lot of the casuals they're now trying to appeal to. Raid players on this game seem to be deathly afraid that "scrubs" might be able to get Raid gear and invalidate some false sense of real life achievement. And if someones mind, life and sense of self worth and achievement is predicated on accomplishing tasks in a video game, perhaps its those people who have awful priorities. But maybe that's just me
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[quote]Raid players on this game seem to be deathly afraid that "scrubs" might be able to get Raid gear and invalidate some false sense of real life achievement.[/quote] This...... [quote]And if someones mind, life and sense of self worth and achievement is predicated on accomplishing tasks in a video game, perhaps its those people who have awful priorities[/quote] This, squared. Unless you're someone who is actually earning a living playing or making these games.
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Yet people complain about not being able to get them, enough for bungie to notice and go down the road they are.
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At the expense of the quality and depth of the game. It will bite them in the ass one day.
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Not really. Because the people who are complaining are a small percent of the gaming market. The people they are appealing to are the largest in number...and actually have the most money to spend. The gaming industry NEEDS casuals. They don't need hardcore players. A point that elitists----in their arrogance----fail to understand.
