I’m not claiming to be a good player, but I don’t believe that team shooting is as big an issue as the forum would have you believe - It’s actually pretty easy to adapt to. Personally I’m glad that 1v2 and 1v3 are significantly harder now; IMHO this is how it should be, I’m glad they’ve upped the TTK. Regarding SBMM, I would assume if I’m diamond ranked it will match me with similarly performing players, and you don’t really get that many noobs at that rank. My KD, for what’s its worth, is probably average at best (I think it’s about 1.6 Kd, 2.15 kad), but it’s clearly not all team shooting. I actually prefer to flank - Actually my stats are pretty similar to my D1 stats, so clearly, for me, teAm shooting isn’t really a major factor. If people are regularly dying to team shooting then they probably aren’t as good a player as they think they are. I don’t consistently get easy games, most are fairly well balanced; I just win more than I lose. I’m also glad the game caters more to casuals, after all its them that fund the development of the game in the 1st place. Couldn’t care less about elite players as they make up such a minute portion of the player base. Most of the people I play with are casuals. Most of the people I played with in D1 over 3 years were casuals.

Like I said..I don't care about stats because this game is garbage. You get charity points, which work in a game like overwatch but not Destiny. I also never said it was difficult to play. The problem is that it's not fun. You are forced to play the exact same way every single game. There's no variance. You group up and shoot.. That's it. In D1 you could play passive with scouts, press the action with hand cannons, autos, or pulses. You could pick people off with snipers, get in close with shotguns, use fusion rifles to melt people. You could do all of this without huddling in a group like chickens. Will team shotting and taking good angles help you win an engagement? You bet, but it isn't absolutely necessary to have any possible success. Someone mentioned it above, but right now in a 2v1, if you land all crits on 1 person you will still die first even if the 2 enemies are hitting all body shots. That type of play rewards no skill whatsoever. Shouldn't the solo player at least be rewarded for hitting the crits? Destiny 2 rewards you for out numbering your opponent instead of having actual skill.

I can see why you don’t care for stats, j was just using mine to illustrate that team shots had made very little difference to my performance. I respect your view, but for me D2 PVP is an improvement on D1. As I said in my original post, your view may well differ, and I suspect I’m a minority, but not everyone feels the way you do. I’m just trying to provide a different perspective. I genuinely enjoy D2 PVP, but that’s probably because I’m a casual player, a “filthy casual” as you might put it. To me the skill in any game is not getting yourself into an encounter that you can’t win, in D2 the skill is in the tactics, not relying on a low TTK to wipe teams before they know what’s hit them - that’s really not skill. Each to their own. I hope you find a game you enjoy, or that Bungie manage to find a compromise that suits your play style.

[quote]To me the skill in any game is not getting yourself into an encounter that you can’t win[/quote] Which means if you see 2 people, just run away because you CAN'T win in this game. That type of gameplay promotes playing extremely passive and camping. You keep acting like I just ran around in D1 with a shotgun constantly. I'm not talking about heavy weapons or special weapons. I'm talking about being rewarded for actually aiming your primary weapons. In Destiny 1 you were rewarded for hitting crits. I'm not insta-killing people with snipers or shotguns like these scenarios that you keep trying to paint. I'm talking about a standard 2v1. If I use cover, have effective movement, and hit my crits I can kill at least 1 opponent if my opponents are hitting bodyshots. I get rewarded for doing these things. If my opponents teamshot me with crits I'll most likely die very quickly. They are rewarded for having good aim. If they have bad aim and hit only body shots, one of them may die. They don't get rewarded for just following each other around the map. Destiny 2 rewards poor aim just because there are more of you. Teamshotting and utilizing angles will help you win gunfights, but they won't guarantee a victory %99 of the time. Aiming skill actually comes into play.

I’m not acting like anything at all, I’ve made no statement regarding your play style, deliberately so. We’ll have to agree to disagree - I regularly take on 2 v 1 and win in D2, and that’s not to do with SBMM. 3v1 I’d generally back away from, but then I would in D1 too. The problem wasn’t just shotguns or snipers in D1, it was that almost all the guns had ridiculously short TTK - last word being a prime example, and you didn’t even have to aim that! There was never a chance for opponents to react - so the skill was in getting into the position in the 1st place (and in that respect nothing has changed). I don’t think I can think of a single case in D1 where I was on the losing side of a 2v1, when I was in the 2, that wasn’t due to being killed before having time to react. In a face on fight it was always an easy kill, headshots or not - so again, for me, nothing has changed. You can still do all of the things you describe in D2, use of critical, cover, nades, less so Mele (good), you just have to approach it differently. Just last night I took out 3 in iron banner with a scout, from range, using cover, headshots, and the benefit of a foe-tracker helmet; limiting the angles so only 1 could see me. You can say it was because they were bad players, maybe they were, but you’re just as likely to meet the same standard of player - you just have to use your judgement, and back away if it looks like you’re going to be overpowered- which is possible due the the increased TTK. I get that you’re upset that you can no longer play the way you used to, but I think that’s to the benefit if the game- you don’t and that’s fine; either adapt, or find something else to play.

You're again cherry picking your examples. TLW definitely required aiming and would net you 1 kill before you had to reload. Next you'll probably bring up y1 Hawkmoon. D1 wasn't perfect and had its share of problems, but gun fights were determined by more than just who had more people. I could point to how broken Uriels Gift is too. There will obviously be weapons that are better than others. The fact of the matter is that Destiny 2's PvP is more forgiving and takes less skill to be successful. Numbers decide the outcomes more often than not instead of actual aiming. Campy, passive gameplay is highly encouraged. You've been respectful, so if you like playing that way it's your opinion. I just can't get on board with a game that rewards those things.

I think gun fights Results are still determined by more than numbers, but accept it is a greater factor than it used to be. I don’t mind that, you clearly do, and that’s fine. At least we can have a civilised debate without resulting to the usual forum abuse - thank you for that!