[quote]The main part of court of oryx was in no way the timer first of all, in fact the timer was so inconsequential that you didnt even notice it most of the time, what it did have that was noticeable were at least somewhat interesting mechanics for its boss fights, such as trying to get two bosses close together, or taking out the bosses shield with an explosion from cursed thralls.[/quote] The 300 light versions, you definitely noticed the timer the first few times. Once you got good at them, you didn't notice them, and I'm betting by the time we've had a few weeks with these night falls and strikes we won't really notice the timer either. [quote] Second due to the timer and the fact that for challenges and weapons you need 5 minutes at least remaining you can in no way be methodical when going through the nightfall. Last weeks nightfall you could not take your time killing all of the enemies because if you took more then 2 seconds to kill a normal enemy then you had a net loss of time, and if you took more then 7 seconds to kill an elite then you also had a net loss. So in no way could you take it slow and be methodical because if you even tried to then you would run out of time. For this week you absolutely can no go slow, first you only get time back by jumping through hoops, hoops that disappear after a short time (not nearly enough time to clear the area and then grab them). And you basically have to run through entire sections of this weeks nightfall if you want to have any amount of time to kill the boss, you cannot sit and clear every single area because you will get no extra time by doing so. So no matter what type of tram you have you simply cant not go slowly through these nightfalls and kill off avery enemy because you will run out of time.[/quote] Methodical doesn't need to be slow. In fact proper methodical play was way better than rush through like a maniac play for most of last week because you'd spend your time actually killing enemies instead of being dead or searching desperately for a spot to hide in. This week, did you know the hoops don't even have a time limit until you hit the first one? It's way better to clear all the enemies and then activate the rings and get a bunch of time doing them right than to try to activate the rings immediately and get as many as you can while in the middle of a huge firefight and hope you don't die. You're letting the timer get in your head and think you have to rush but you really don't. [quote] Also i did not say that the sending you back to orbit alone was what made a nightfall in destiny 1 difficult, not did i say it was the way it should go. I said that it was a much better mechanic then a timer. Both are essential mechanics that lead to a complete fail, time runs out you fail, all three die you fail, which is why i compared only those mechanics. With a timer one person can just run off and carry an entire team (so long as they are strong enough and good enough of course), the same thing can kind of happen with the original version but the other two players will at the very least need to survive in the boss fight (which usually involved some kind of fighting). So while it can happen in both it is significantly harder with the modifier that sends you back to orbit since with a timer the two or one being carried dont even have to stay alive.[/quote] I understood the comparison you were making, which is why I acknowledged the things that did make nightfall hard year 1. It is easy to compare the two though, which is why I think the timer is better because it adds actual challenge AND punishes you for failure getting into your head. In D1 no, the other two players don't need to survive if the guy or gal carrying them is strong enough to solo it. Only one guy needs to not die. [quote]Also a timer does not really encourage much in the way of playing smart. While last week you had to play a little smarter (picking specific kills), you still ran past the majority of the enemies if you wanted a decent time (if that is smart playing then anyone that players higher level diablo 3 is an absolute genius since all they do is cherry pick enemies to kill). This week is a completely different story, you had to kill only a handful of enemies, while all others you had to run past while jumping through hoops to get a decent time. Running through the majority of a level is not playing smart, it is just playing fast.[/quote] I'll have to disagree. You ran past two sections mostly: the gauntlet where you slam the first fuel cell, and the tank room, and I saw solo runs where one or both of these rooms were not skipped. Running past them was not required and if you killed quickly it was better to clear them. Playing smart comes in when you are trying to figure out what to skip, what not to skip, when to run through everything, and when doing that is likely to kill you. Playing smart is coordinating with your fireteam so that when you stand and fight and methodically kill everything, you do so efficiently. My guess is the people having the most trouble are the ones not really doing that and then not understanding where they lost time, whether it was killing things too slowly or spending a bunch of time dead because they were trying to rush past stuff and got unlucky.