Man pulling out the civil rights movement. Remember what happened what happened to the Destiny we loved because of constant complaints. I have no idea if Bungie screwed up based on the dozen guns I used in the beta.

We do know they screwed up because they changed something that they didn't need to change. We know they screwed up because a majority of players asked them to focus on PVE and instead, they made competitive PVP a priority. Granted, the final game isn't out yet, but we've gotten a taste of the beta and they have leaked and thereafter confirmed a LOT of information which tells us a lot about their philosophy of the game. And we can surmise from that philosophy that they did a lot of things they shouldn't have done which alter the nature of the game. And they marketed this game as their chance to solve BIG problems. So why the hell did they not solve the BIGGEST problem the game has suffered from, really, since Day 1? I don't feel bad for them. They brought this on themselves.

There is more PvE content in D2 than all of Destiny combined. How is it they only focused on PvP? They brought in 2 more developers to provide a steady stream of PvE content. How is that a PvP focus. The loadout change is the only thing that changed that impacts PvE.

I would direct you to a video by Planet Destiny 'Locked load outs for nightfall'. We are told of the balance changes for the PC version beta being played in Games com. Super energy is charging A LITTLE bit faster than in the Console version. It's apparently not a significant change, which is the OPPOSITE of what PvE players were asking for. So the load out change is NOT the only change that impacts PvE.

And that coincides with what I've been saying. Without readily available special/power weapon ammo to serve as a counter to supers in PVP, Super/ability regen times MUST NECESSARILY BE SLOW to be balanced. PVP and PVE aren't going to ever be completely separated apparently so these changes bleed over in negatively impact PVE. What bungie should have done is simply told the people who WANT this game to be halo "if you want that game go play it. That's not Destiny." Destiny would have been a much better game for it if they had done so.

Bungie are the masters of slight of hand and hype. Just look at the trailer for the PC beta PvP, it made it look as though Supers were plentiful. I knew the minute that they extended the play time in Control from 75 to 100 that supers would not be recharging much more quickly. I received a response to a comment I made in a thread to Cozmo asking whether the charge time in PvE would be greater than that for PvE. He told me that they were increasing the time for both. Slight of hand, whilst true it didn't answer my question and I am not so easily fooled by this sort of response. They honestly think that people are incredibly stupid.

Yeah people keep running around saying "don't worry, they buffed recharge time and power ammo drop rates, it's going to be fantastic." But they never say HOW MUCH they are going to buff it and I suspect because if they did, they'd land themselves in a lot more hot water. The reality is the system they created was centered around making PVP play a certain way and they aren't going to let anything exist that is going to change the way they want PVP to play. Realistically speaking, what this means is that there is only SO MUCH they can do within the current D2 architecture to improve the experience. Buff it too much for the sake of PVE and PVP will become unbalanced as supers/abilities will be more readily available without any counter available. And that would be a HUGE problem.

[quote]There is more PvE content in D2 than all of Destiny combined. How is it they only focused on PvP?[/quote] Nobody is going to play all the PVE content they have made when the core gameplay has been eroded so much that we have no reason to play/replay that content. That is what people like you don't seem to understand. Quantity of PVE content does not = PVE focus. If that is the case, there is no such thing as a PVP game that ISN'T a dedicated PVP game with no campaign, such as overwatch. Companies simply spend more time developing campaigns/story than they do developing maps. They've removed the reasons why we play. Character/Subclass progression and customization? GONE for PVP balance. Powerful weapons? GONE for PVP balance. Loot-based incentives (i.e., godrolls), GONE from the game for the sake of PVP. Elite-tier endgame loot? IT MUST be gone because PVP balance is such a priority that if endgame gear was really that much better than everything else in PVE, it'd be that much better than everything else in PVP and it wouldn't be balanced. Destiny 2's PVE content CANT play like Halo's Campaign on Legendary because that kind of PVE content doesn't keep us playing PVE over and over. We play PVE over and over again for power progression, which we can't have because things must be balanced for PVP. So really, all the extra PVE content they're making is just giving us MORE and BIGGER hamster wheels, but they've decreased our incentives to run/rerun on them. [quote]The loadout change is the only thing that changed that impacts PvE. [/quote] Wrong again. The loadout change indirectly effects PVE in terms of supers. D1's design worked, roughly speaking. Sure some weapons were out of balance, but fast primary kill times held special weapons in check, and special weapons helped counter supers/heavies, and supers/heavies countered everything else but were far less available than special ammo. So roughly speaking, the scheme worked. It just played too fast, and because of the LOOT-SHOOTER nature of the game, it wasn't competitively balanced. but it was fun. When you remove the special weapons from play for PVP purposes, that means that you also have to make super/ability recharge times REALLY SLOW because the counter is not available or MUCH LESS readily available- in this case, Power weapon Ammo. Since PVP and PVE share the same sandbox, that means that ability recharge times GLOBALLY must be slower, and this removes the space magic from the game on the PVE side. Not only that, because they have slowed down the pace of PVP, they had to slow down and decrease our guardian's mobility, which is why movement felt so off during the beta. Since PVP and PVE sandbox is shared, slower movement and lower mobility crosses over into the PVE realm as well. See a trend here? PVP is the reason PVE players can't get the experience THEY WANT to get. D2 is effectively converting the game into a standard FPS. Which is fine if they would just come out and say "we're going back to making FPS arena shooter games." But they keep feeding us this bogus information that because they made so much PVE content, the game is PVE oriented. Its not. They're just hoping by stringing out the storyline, they'll keep enough casual PVE players interested in playing the game to make up for the fact that there is no reason to replay the PVE content we WILL have. Quantity is NOT always better than quality, and it is NOT indicative of where their priorities lie.

You are in FIRE! 🔥 Keep it up!

The incentive to replay content was slowly removed throughout Destiny's life. The need to grind was removed systematically with every update. Did PvP have anything to do with that? I don't think so. It was the biggest money spending player group. It was the casual player base. You say the game was simplified for PvP, I think it was simplified so the will be more sells. Why did Valus get nerfed? Why did rng get nerfed? Why did max light become attainable without Raiding? Why did light level disadvantage in PvE change so drastically? Why did three of coins become a thing? Why did they eliminate farming materials? There have been many more changes than universal sandbox updates that made Destiny less fun. It all started with complaints right here on our favorite forums.

PvP absolutely has a lot to do with it. Nerfs to balance PvP lessen PvE, period. It's death by a thousand cuts.