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6/22/2017 12:13:01 AM
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Destiny 2's weapon system: Reality vs Perception

So ever since the DRE reveal, there has been a lot of talk about the new weapon system. There have been many posts claiming it will limit play and many more claiming that all these changes are the result of PvP. I understand players are concerned about such a big change, particularly without the context of having had a chance to actually try it out yet in the confines of Destiny 2. With all that said, I have played it and of everything I experienced playing the D2 PvE, the new weapon system was hands down my favorite change to the game and I'm not alone. Mercules904 (who's probably the preeminent weapon tester in the game) said when asked what it's like going back to D1 after playing D2 [quote]It's painful to me, actually. I never realized how much nicer it is not having special weapons all the time. D1 feels broken after D2[/quote] Now I know there was good reason within the D1 PvP experience to make these changes in D2. Weapon balancing was a shit-show as Bungie were never able to figure out a way to evenly balance out a system in which 2 of our 3 weapon slots were capable of OHKs. Ironically what is generally perceived as the best era in D1 PvP was the House of Wolves when DoTs mattered and served as a natural counter and suppressor to OHK weapons. We all witnesses the spiral out of control of specials and heavy after Dots were destroyed to where ammo nerfs were used as last ditch stopgaps. We all know the frustration amongst the community with Fusion Grenades. D2 PvP will certainly benefit from all OHK capable weapons being classed together and lead to a hopefully much easier system to balance (which by default will lead to a more stable game overall), but to paint that as the only reason for making the change is simply false. These changes were made with as much or more thought to PvE than they were PvP and again, having played it, I found the system to not only offer more interesting choices of loadouts, but just a much more fun and diverse play experience. One of the quotes about D2 I have issue with is [quote]Special and Heavy are fun. Those are going away at a rate of 50%[/quote] Well here is the hard truth behind that reality. They aren't being used much in PvE anyway so 50% of a fraction of kills changes what? I wanted to get an idea of how Primary, Special and Heavy weapons are actually used by players in Destiny 1 PvE so I did some research and found some interesting numbers. I reached out to Jay at Destinytracker to try to see if there's a way to get aggregate numbers across time periods, but for now I pulled the kill percentages by weapon class in each PvE activity on the most recent day those stats were available 6/3/2017 Here's are the kill percentages by activity for overall weapon class as well as detailed by weapon subclasses for that day. [url=http://i.imgur.com/UVrxpg9.jpg]Story overview[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/LJVBlp6.jpg]Story detail[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/oHbW3Zr.jpg]Strike overview[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/hMmKvLe.jpg]Strike detail[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/vinDkhZ.jpg]Raid overview[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/xNamf7B.jpg]Raid detail[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/xNamf7B.jpg]Patrol overview[/url] [url=http://i.imgur.com/y8H0Sja.jpg]Patrol detail[/url] Now these numbers are from a single day, but spread over weeks and months, the numbers are pretty consistent and what becomes clear is that by making this change to the weapon system, Bungie is allowing us greater use of the weapons we use most. (It's also pretty clear why MGs are going away as well) The reality of Destiny PvE is that Primary weapons are the lion's share of our kills and situations that dictate special and heavy weapons generally can be approached using either. The other reality (and the numbers back it up) is that we spend the majority of PvE sitting on special and heavy ammo until those specific situations arise. Destiny 2 is not Destiny 1. Yes it's still Destiny, but everything has evolved including mission and strike structure. Granted we only played an abridged first mission and one strike, but it's enough to see that it's its own game. The fights are more dynamic. There are more enemies on screen to contend with and we have more options at our disposal to fight those enemies with. In Destiny 1, I sit on my special and heavy ammo and use each vary sparingly. In D2 I was constantly swapping between my Pulse Rifle and Hand Cannon during the strike and whichever power weapon I had, I found I used more frequently because there were always bricks dropping and with just the one power slot vs D1's two, it actually encouraged using it more and not holding it for specific situations. Again this is my experience with D2 and yours might be completely different, but until you've had the opportunity to unload an Auto Rifle and instead of reloading, swapping to an SMG to keep burning through enemies, it's hard to look at the changes and really understand or appreciate how much they actually open up play and make encounters more diverse. The last thing I will add is that again, to all this talk that Destiny 2 is all about PvP and PvE is just an afterthought being dictated by PvP balancing... We haven't scratched the surface of what PvE will offer. We've seen half a story mission and a strike. We haven't seen the larger worlds yet, the Patrol missions, the Lost Sectors, the Flash Points, the updated public events, D2s take on PvE arenas, Quests and Bounties. We don't even know the progression systems or economy. So I understand speculation and I understand concern, but I do not accept that D2 is primarily a PvP experience and I don't agree it should keep D1's weapon system. D1 is an incredibly fun game but also one pretty broken in many ways and it manages to succeed in spite of it's faults. What I experienced with D2 was better across the board and I can't wait for everyone to get the opportunity to judge it for themselves.
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  • Edited by Grenadist: 7/25/2017 2:13:59 PM
    First let me say, I liked the Beta for the most part, I am excited for Destiny 2. But I don't want two primary weapons...and I don't understand why anyone would. Destiny, for all its faults, is a solid shooter. It's super satisfying to get a head shot, or mow down a group of enemies. This (as of the Beta) just doesn't feel as viable anymore. Sure, hand cannons still feel fun to shoot, but they don't have the same immediate stopping power as a shotgun. Similarly a Scout Rifle has a decent range, but it's nothing compared to the range and impact of a Sniper Rifle, especially when you consider this game is literally designed to be BIGGER than Destiny 1. It has been a point of pride amongst the devs, that the PVE play areas will be bigger. Now granted in some areas the geography of the landscape will inhibit sniper fire, but surely not everywhere. To me, it's not just about the weapons doing the same damage as a their old Secondary counterparts or more variety of choice, it's about the QUALITY of play. I liked grinding in Destiny 1, it flicked that "maybe this time the boss drops the exact reward I want" switch. But I liked the grinding because I could have fun with an Autorifle, or clean shop with a shotgun, play with enemies shields with a Fusion Rifle, and toy with enemies who didn't know I was there from cross map with a Sniper rifle. It is nowhere near the same to run into a group of enemies and take them out with sustained 3-6 second controlled fire from an SMG or trying to take down shields with a pulse rifle and then swapping to a Hand Cannon for the finishing shot; as opposed to using a shotgun for three quick satisfying shots. A scout doesn't have the range or impact of a sniper, and as good as it is, it's not a replacement for the enjoyment of feeling a solid head shot that Bungie developed for a sniper. I don't want to be forced to chose between a rocket or a shotgun...Two wildly different types of weapons that don't realistically belong in the same category. There are eight weapon types locked behind one load out slot, and six split between two that are essentially the same. Kinetic/Energy - Autorifle, Hand Cannon, Pulse Rifle, Scout Rifle, Sidearm, SMG and Power - Sword, Rocket Launcher, Machine Gun, Grenade Launcher, Fusion Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Shotgun. My main point is, I don't understand the decision for the weapon load out change. I get how it affects PVP (and I know there is many who like it for just that, not me personally not much of a PVP player) but it makes no sense to me. Based on what I have seen and played, it essentially feels like they have turned it into a two weapon system; Energy and Power. A big deal in Destiny 1 was getting a primary that did elemental damage, so you could have all three bases covered (or two and then your subclass' damage type). I don't know why I would use a kinetic primary, when I could use a energy primary. I can't think of a viable reason to not just use my Arc Autorifle all the time, and a Solar Shotgun for example. Now you may say shield resistance types, my current counter is play it EXACTLY like Destiny 1: Change your weapon from an Arc Autorifle to say a Void Hand cannon. We did it all the time. My other potential solution for this is that it SEEMS like from the Beta that energy damage mods might be swapable individually, without changing the weapon. Thus keeping the gun you like and the energy damage you need for the fight. This however may not be the case. The other obvious counter is ammo availability and I grant I don't have a realistic full game solution for this; but my (admittedly shaky) argument against that is, I had hundreds of Special Ammo synths in Destiny 1. I wasn't hurting for ammo. It was already a fairly common drop, and when I needed it just in case, I had synths. Why would I use a Kinetic weapon when the Energy can be the exact same, but have the addition of doing elemental type damage that is more often useful than it is a hindrance. The weapon slots didn't need to change to fix the issues of Destiny PVP, but they have and PVE is worse off for it. I, and many others, don't play PVP and I personally don't like the changes they have made for the whole game because of a smaller and less significant aspect of the game (in my perspective, it might well be a big part of other peoples experiences). Hopefully I'm wrong, and the changes Bungie have said they have made will wash away my concerns and issues, but currently, doesn't seem like it.

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