You do realize I have killed far too many people with a blade dancer, in the current meta, with nothing more then simple dancing around the arena and from the play test build of arcstrider I have? You're going to die a lot more with that staff then the blade I have currently. Sorry kiddo, but abilities should absolutely never be nerfed. There is very little to no justification even from a Dungeons and Dragons standpoint on this. "You are gaining power, equipment, and levels... but you're doing less damage with the same abilities then previously." said no GM, or game creater, ever.

Yea, i'm a kiddo let me tell ya. Sorry bud, the fact that everything appears to be a bullet sponge in D2 would make shoulder charge OP if it one shotted. Tradedancer can already be shoulder charged out of it's super.

[quote]Sorry bud, the fact that everything appears to be a bullet sponge in D2 would make shoulder charge OP if it one shotted.[/quote] There's no bullet sponge weapons I've tested already. Get your hands on the beta. You are probably watching videos I guess. The game is right on par with ttk currently. There's very little to no "bullet sponge" builds which would actually be ideal since it is a FPS and most FPS don't require a full clip to kill people. Destiny and Halo: Reach however...

Well... if that's the case then every subclass should have a OHK R1/RB ability that can be used without a set cooldown.

We did. My warlock only rocked one other subclass build: Radiant Skin, when Thorn was all the popular in crucible. Otherwise? Song of Flame with solar grenades all three years. Do you know what cratered earth battlefields mean when two guardians, grenades every second to me and every other second to him, can do when we create wall, after wall, after wall? And yet... it only ever killed three or four people at a time. Why? Because the super timer never lasted longer. Now why didn't that get a nerf I wonder... Why didn't radiant skin get a buff when Thorn was around? Why didn't chest armors get a decrease damage from dot weapons in crucible? We got an artifact finally... Listen kiddo. There's been PLENTY of opportunity on this and I've been making the same posts that gamers do not appreciate when a subclass, OUR subclass they like to play, get's told to be a second class guardian. You can take a count on one hand how many games tried that idea. Bungie is doing it again and I'm telling them to create counters to abilities so people can have the tools they need to be effective if that build becomes rampant. That is what Destiny actually lacks balance wise. There is a zero percent chance too, after three years, they will fix this methodology. My Hunter exclusively ran symbiote golden gun or normal golden gun with firefly for all three years. Shadestep ONLY to shut down hammer supers. Name ONE instance where hunters golden gun was nerfed. Name ONE...

1.) Red Death countered Thorn (Those are weapons and have nothing to do with class abilities). 2.) Again... Chest armors have nothing to do with weapon DoT. 3.) Golden Gun's super is the only thing that subclass has going for it, and even then you have no armor in that animation frame. I normally don't have a problem challenging GG's super. The Throwing Knife and the Tripmines were previously nerf'd.

[quote]1.) Red Death countered Thorn (Those are weapons and have nothing to do with class abilities).[/quote] No it didn't. Tested and maintained. No one was ever able to completely stop thorn because of the recoil and lack of options for a rof change. Sorry kiddo, but you aren't going to win this based on weapons. The concept here is getting basic counters, at the most basic level, into the hands of gamers who can counter guns capabilities by focusing on their characters. The characters must be powerful. Not the guns they wield exclusively. That is what the balance I'm referring to means. Abilities should tell people to be cautious and alert while characters should be willing to combat techniques and capabilities with higher dedications in the build. Remember that Thorn was a 2sk. Red Death was three. [quote]2.) Again... Chest armors have nothing to do with weapon DoT.[/quote] Wrong kiddo. Chest armors currently provide buffs for splash element to recovery. Everyone takes the armor buff, but recovery is exceptionally useful for when PvE modifier "Exposure" is on. If you haven't tried it, then you should. [quote]3.) Golden Gun's super is the only thing that subclass has going for it. The Throwing Knife and the Tripmines were previously nerf'd.[/quote] Golden guns super ends all supers in the hands of a hunter who maintains range control. It's also the most used in rumble. Ever seen why it is? Because it's 4 free kills. Go ahead and try and argue also that it isn't the most useful for mayhem gametypes. Tripmines were nerfed? Really? Because the nerfs which occurred to the other classes has made it a OHK when near the spread of the point again. How do I know that? Play tested in custom games with a few clan people. Sorry, but throwing knife? It leaves 3/10 of health on a max armor titan with a headshot hit. Go check the math. It's 100% of the best subclass in the game when you simply need to slay other guardians. Name one counter to it when the effect is instant death and quick reflex guardians like myself know to not venture into close range since Fist of Havok can't proc unstoppable anymore since they are always midair. I have play tested a lot right now. The crucible is run by Hunters and hunters alone because there is NO counters to their abilities besides good battlefield awareness which, again, casuals typically don't have, and don't have the tools in their basic builds to do ANYTHING effective to stop one of the lowest average k/d spreads last reported by Bungie themselves. This is a game which is not fun primarily because their is no real power. If a warlock could hold RB for a narrowed cone melee blast, one per melee charge, and stop a shoulder charge? That's a counter. If a hunter could throw a knife into a warlock super on the same principle that they purposely held it down to shut down a super but sacrifice their own super charge time and grenade charge time? Then guardians would have an instant stop based on THEIR capability. Supers become useless? No, battlefield awareness goes up. How? Whenever a guardian has that charge shot up? They glow above their heads, indicating the buff is active. Visual awareness plus capability and blink would actually be useful for the narrowed cone aspect. That's one idea out of a dozen I've had for a while. The entire point of a guardian is to be so powerful it knocks enemies back with the intent of causing damage by sheer force of body, mind, or capability. That gives EVERYONE a fighting chance even at the higher echelons of skill.

That's odd you say that. I main a Hunter and my highest kill streak is not on a Hunter, iv'e found Voidwalker to fit my playstyle quite well. You wanna know what Sunbreaker is? A better Bladedancer. You wanna know what Striker is? The hardest subclass to challenge 1 on 1. You wanna know what Defender can do? Stop ANY super dead in it's tracks with a supression grenade.

[quote]I main a Hunter and my highest kill streak is not on a Hunter, iv'e found Voidwalker to fit my playstyle quite well.[/quote] I main a titan. Never had any issue getting kills with it. Played Warlock and hunter on the side and easily found the hunter is 100% slayer material while everything else is just about dancing around the battlefield. Literally. [quote]You wanna know what Sunbreaker is? A better Bladedancer.[/quote] My blade dancer has never been dropped by a hammer. Likewise, my hammer titan has only twice been dropped by a blade dancer. Both times invisible with the super active, while focusing on other enemies. [quote]You wanna know Striker is? A better Bladedancer.[/quote] One use. No. My blade dancer, while crouch invis, has killed multiple capture point people solely because of lockdown capability and showstopper. Striker currently has not once pulled a single 3+ cry of Havok because unstoppable can't proc due to the lunge aspect. Therefore, it's impossible for it to be effective outside of a juggernaut, which drops armor. Again, when a subclass capability is reduced to where guns can and most likely will overpower it? Guardians have to call the pendulum clock to the other side. Abilities have not once been buffed to reflect what players have asked for or for that matter to allow for them to exercise good judgment outside of, "stand over here with a pulse rifle and shoot in this window" which is difficult because that window exposes you to too many things for you to cover them all. [quote]You wanna know what Defender can do? Stop ANY super dead in it's tracks with a supression grenade[/quote]. Grenade charge is used up in 30 seconds. It's a 45 second cooldown. If you think it will "suppress" an already active super too? You're mistaken. It doesn't suppress anything. Only prolongs when it can be used.

You must not be a good Titan....

Actually, my titan has the best k/d spread. Sorry kiddo. Running out of things you normally talk about and don't know anything else?