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5/25/2017 7:34:40 PM
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Stickies, maybe. But how are sidearms skill-less? Never got that. I remember a poll on this forum where sidearms, pre-patch, were voted as the special weapon that took the most skill to use?
Oh yeah, they became meta because Bungie blanket nerfed everything else, and as usual, the egotistical maniacs that need a scapegoat to blame their failures on confuse usage with skill yet again.
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It's so easy to spam sidearm's me with primary out you just get melted most of the time, plus I just had a bad game in doubles these two just using fusions and sidearms
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Were they skill-less scrub weapons before the special ammo patch?
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That's debatable no one really used them because other weapons were more fun to use, to me at least. I did use them before the patch and they did ok it was a havoc pigeon different archetype from the wormwood. It's a mixture of annoyance and a lack of variety in special because of the changes, along with the primary nerfs in how a sidearm has better range than handcannons whilst being spammed. It takes efficient skill to kill with less shots. Too lose all ammo is too far, never a middle ground from who ever makes these changes, respawning with only half ammo left or like sidearm's only a few rounds 2 for sniper and shotguns, 4 for fusions maybe. Should have left destiny in a better state than what we have now, since there's no more updates.
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Sidearms pre-patch had quite a bit of usage; they had a niche as something extremely reliable to mow down shotgun rushers. Didn't really care for them and I hate being forced to use them now, but they were still good beforehand. I don't disagree with you with most of what you said, but what I'm saying is that the community throws around the terms "unskilled" and "crutch" way too much. Sidearms still take skill. They kill fast but despite their listed stability, they still kick like an angry bull and in order to maintain a high TTK at mid-range, the user has to be on point with his aim and recoil control. It's not easy to do that. All I'm saying is that this community overreacts in the extreme to anything that sees usage. Fusion rifles have been a meme for quite a while but if it had been them that avoided the ammo change, I guarantee you they would be considered "no-skill mapping machines". Just because this community has incorrectly drawn a line between usage and the skill required to use that gun.
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Because there's icebreaker and invective to a point it by passes the special ammo changes. If snipers shotguns and fusions respawned with a bit of ammo like sidearm's it wouldn't too bad at least there will be special variety without hoarding ammo. I just hate when I use other specials how I have to pick up ammo, sometimes when I'm just using primary since I have no special, vulnerable to supers and others with special or getting pinched in a tight spot with only primary if I didn't use sidearm or icebreaker.
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I don't disagree with you at all on those points, but it still has nothing to do with the skill required to use a sidearm. Sidearms have ammo. Ice Breaker has ammo. Universal Remote and No Land have ammo. Invective has ammo, to a certain extent. (given that its regen timer is extremely slow and resets to 0 upon death) The fact that these guns have special ammo changes nothing about their skill requirements.
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Edited by Riv3rMon5ters: 5/26/2017 12:32:48 AMI mean the other guy is right, sidearms have the smallest skill gap of all the special weapons and therefore take less skill to use effectively. You really are just spamming shots as fast as you can. Oh and if we had a fusion rifle meta I would hate it haha. They take a lot of skill to master but a good fusion rifle user is harder to counter than any other player.
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You see, I don't see it that way. "Spamming" is a broad term that doesn't really describe anything. I've heard people say that someone is "spamming" their auto rifle, or their pulse rifle, or whatever. What exactly does spamming mean in this context? Sure, sidearms fire fast, but does that mean they have less skill? Also, you just explained exactly how a fusion rifle meta would go. Even though they have a very large learning curve, they're really good once you get them working for you. The way this community works is that they only see the 2nd factor and not the 1st. They don't see the fact that they require skill to use. They see the fact that those guns are powerful and constantly showing up as the weapon they get killed by. This two-faced community could vote unanimously to award all voopers a special medal and a hot cocoa for their skill and then turn around and shun them as meta whores the instant that Saladin's Vigil is the gun on top of the pyramid. That's why I hate when people use the term "unskilled", is because they don't usually know what they're saying when they use that word. It sucks so much to have a big asterisk put next to your performance just because you use something that happens to be the meta. Hell, I had some streamer that we played a couple weeks back get salty and start blabbing that I didn't know how to use a primary, yada yada yada, because I was up close to him and *gasp* decided to use my wormwood instead of my scout. Stuff like that gets me ticked off. People get salty when they're losing or struggling and some people just need to blame it on someone. Hell, I do that a lot. But in the end, I just got outplayed and I've gotta move on.
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Spamming is basically spraying without having to have perfect aim, and it does come into play more with high rof weapons because you are penalized less for missing shots. People spam sidearm shots because even if you miss a shot or two they will still kill faster than basically any primary. Sidearms therefore do take less skill than any other special weapon. They lack the necessity of perfect accuracy that a sniper needs; they lack the necessity to close gaps, master baiting/movement, and time your shot perfectly that a shotgunner needs; and they like the necessity to pre-charge and predict your enemies movements like a fusion rifle user needs. Sidearms do not share the intense range restrictions of shotguns, the precision needed of snipers, and the capability to predict your enemies like fusions. Add on to this that you are not penalized nearly as much for missing a shot of sidearm as you are for any of the others, and you have a weapon with a high skill floor but a low skill ceiling. It's just the nature of the beast. I agree that a lot of this community is two faced... But most of those players are scrubs who just keep finding something new to blame their failures on- ignore them. I dont like fusion rifles but I acknowledge the amount of skill needed to wield one well.
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Edited by Samantha: 5/26/2017 3:19:02 PMFair points, but it's only really up close where you don't really have to aim. To achieve a ranged kill, you need to either hit all of your shots or hope that your opponent can't shoot straight. With the low zoom that sidearms have, the target hitbox is very small at longer distances and considering their fast firerate and moderate kick, it's hard to keep shots on target. Sidearms are more forgiving to missed shots, but they aren't OHK. I've always seen their value, even in this meta, more in their versatility than their killing power. Sure, they outduel a lot of primaries but that's a fault of primaries, not sidearms. Prior to the ammo nerf, everyone ran around with shotguns because primaries were too bad to counter them, so they ran unchallenged save for the occasional sidearm or fusion rifle user. Now you have sidearms that can kill fast and primaries can't really counter it effectively, but that's not a problem with sidearms or indicative of sidearm skill requirements. They still require skill, but they're still good because primaries can't really counter them at all save for 2 hand cannons that maybe can at medium range if they hit their shots. What I'm trying to illustrate is that there's a difference between power and skill, as you said with fusion rifles. Fusion rifles take skill to use but they don't really have an effective counter; definitely not among primaries. Their learning curve (as well as sidearm learning curve) was offputting to a lot of people, but as soon as fusion rifles offer something the populace can't pass up (like ammo advantages), then people will want to overcome that learning curve and suddenly it'll be as if that learning curve never existed at all, at least to the community. Same thing with sidearms.
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Fusions are so much fun sometimes when I'm handcannon/sniping and it's not working out, I switch over to a fusion and melt the guy's using sidearm or shotguns haha
