They lost though. The game will end with the Cabal being defeated. Then if they are not we will fight "Gary" in the raid that will take people about 7 hours the first time to beat him and 30mins to 1 hours every time after unless the Raid is filled with gamebreaking glitches godforbid

I think this applies to the hive gods, Oryx and some other two that I don't remember with Oryx being the one with the law thing I think (because of the sword logic thing) while this logic of a queen of armies makes sense with the cabal, I think this refers to another part of the history of the game with the actual queen of armies from the hive

Toland was proven wrong when we killed oryx. A place of peace and law ringed in spear's always comes out on top.

Well the Skyburners were amassing a fleet to attack, the taken destroyed half the total cabal force by the attack on Phobos alone and by the time the distress call was sent they had been decimated, and remember the emphasis on that call. The cabal can't go home unless it's in victory, so the cabal sending the distress call were at the end of their rope. Clearly the Emperor took that very seriously, dispatching Ghaul. Now, whether the machine was designed to drain the traveler or just cut our connection to it is unknown, but Ghaul does want the Light, most likely not under orders from the Emperor. We know the cabal have been studying us, especially the ghosts. They had an overwhelmingly large advantage over us.

I agree with this idea. What surprises me was why the City never really saw a Cabal attack coming. Did anyone not realize why the largest and most powerful Cabal Legion on Mars was all gathered on Phobos loading weapons, ships, and prepping up their troops with supplies? The Cabal have been planning an attack on us for some time. We became too busy with Taken and Siva that when we finally removed a deadly threat, we were struck again. And kicked own this time.

Isnt it animal abuse to kill turtles... even if they are spaceturtles

I want the space turtles to win.

The cabal was always the strongest. They were on the dreadnought before we got there. They were about to blow up the dreadnought and we stopped them, probably would have taken out Saturn. They would make oryx look like he had a temper tantrum

Words fail to describe how loudly I just sighed when seeing yet another idiot who thinks they are the smartest shit since Einstein claim to have figured out the Destiny universe. You have no idea what you are talking about and shame on you for roping the best, most crucial grimoire card out there into your BS.

Nothing in this game scares me. There's no "I have no shot" moments. I'm going to kill tons of cabal and "Gary" will die like all the rest. Not because of lore, not because I have nothing left to lose, but because I have the ability to do so. There are plenty of gaurdians that can slay with the most basic of equipment. And they fear NOTHING. 😉

wait a sec... you don't remember going out and conquering the darkness? we killed a lot of stuff. I don't remember any part of the story where we had to protect the city, barring one mission where some fallen landed on bannerfall as some pathetic attempt to do something. not sure what they were thinking. lol. anyways, we conquered the darkness where it hurt. we started with the vex, destroying atheon in the vault of glass, and then to crota. not to mention the fallen "gods" we killed along the way. then we killed skolas... not that it was impressive or anything. and then destroyed oryx, who, mind you, was the original "queen of armies". I feel like that was the biggest point I had to make. We as guardians have not been just sitting around in the city licking wounds. we went out and shattered the best the darkness had to throw in our path.

I'd like to quickly point out Toland's quote was basically saying survival of the fittest. In the next cycle of queens, all three will have armies. Then one will invent the cannon and conquer all. On and on. The cabal were destined to win not because we boxed ourselves in. They were destined to win because they invented the cannon first.

Sorry, but im a very lazy man [spoiler]TL:DR[/spoiler]

[quote]This will be short. So today, I’m going to explain (more or less) why the cabal were destined to bring us down. The answer is in an old card that I’ve used before to explain which faction is better than the others. Darkness 3:[quote]Imagine three great nations under three great queens. The first queen writes a great book of law and her rule is just. The second queen builds a high tower and her people climb it to see the stars. The third queen raises an army and conquers everything…. ....Of course, it might be that there was another country, with other queens, and in this country they sat down together and made one law and one tower and one army to guard their borders. This is the dream of small minds: a gentle place ringed in spears. But I do not think those spears will hold against the queen of the country of armies. And that is all that will matter in the end.[/quote] Toland’s universal principle for how the universe works. Three queens: one of laws, one of a high tower, and one of armies. There is also another possible queen that has one law, one army, and one tower. (Sound familiar?) The city likely falls under the category of that fourth queen. Toland was right, that carefully placed ring of spears didn’t hold against a queen of armies. (the Red legion) They were bound to break our defense. They were destined to break us apart. We were destined to lose. Now, you may be thinking right now “Oh, wait. So does that mean the city is lost for good?” Nope. You alone were incredibly dangerous when you were just defending the city's walls. Now that the city is lost, we’re on the offensive. To half-ass quote some smart guy, "Don't mess with a man who has nothing left to lose." You may have just become the single most deadly thing in the system. Get in there guardian. Show Gual (Gaul? Ghaul? Ghual?) Gary, why you’re called a legend.[quote]Back to master thread: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/205238605[/quote] Cheers :D[/quote] Just putting this out there but in everything revealed so far there is mention when speaking of "Gary" and his Red Legion under the influence/command however you want to phrase it there may be a better way than those words, anyways... under the influence of the "EMPEROR" not a Queen. I personally am interested in knowing more about this Emperor figure still lurking in the shadows....

That peice of Grimoire applies to Hive lore, not Cabal. Good theory but out of place.

Yeah Toland's universal blablabla, it's all BS. Why? Because Oryx lost. The Apex of evolution and what Toland saw as the universe perfected? Yeah they lost. The principle is useless and Guardians​ have proved it time and time again.

If this is the case, then Destiny 2's ending would be us dying? Nope, makes no sense because how would there be all the other content and the raid? Clearly, we are going to find some supernatural ways to beat their ass and then we go to their biggest ship, and -blam!- Gary in the ass. Seems pretty legit.

[quote]This will be short[/quote]