this is all I am seeing all over the forums, all over the internet and I feel like i'm in the same place aswell. anybody else? I can't help but feel like destiny will fail rapidly without them especially competitively. (in my own opinion) I also assume this is the real reason behind the switch to 4v4 modes and I also feel like both peer to peer and 4v4 modes may just ruin crucible which is to me what played a massive part in keeping the game alive. to me dedicated servers were the only thing ever missing from destiny crucible and it looks like with destiny 2 they did everything right with the PVE and I assume they gave us everything we wanted on the PVE side of things but gave us everything we didn't ask for in PVP. I care about the success of Destiny. ''[b]Why Dedicated Servers Are Better than P2P [/b] If you’re a gamer, most likely, you’re one of the millions who take this hobby extremely seriously. Today’s gamers love their favorite pastime to the point that many have actually made careers out of them. This may not be to the extent you’ve taken it—or even hope to—but that doesn’t mean you don’t want to play your best game every time, especially when it’s against others. This brings up the debate between using a dedicated server for this purpose and relying on a P2P (peer-to-peer) connection. The long and the short of it is that any developer that really wants the most from the online playing experience they provide needs to go with a dedicated server. Peer to Peer Servers P2P connections just refer to the kind you already have with your console, whether it’s a PlayStation, Xbox or PC. These systems can all connect to the Internet and, thus, to one another. It’s how most people enjoy online gaming. Now, even if everyone playing the same game lacks a dedicated server, they’re still connecting to one. Just like with a website, a dedicated server is needed to keep the game up and running. P2P connections, therefore, actually involve a dedicated server. Dedicated Servers However, some games are so massive, (e.g. MMOs), that special servers are needed in order to support the players. Your typical home Internet setup just doesn’t have upload speeds that are high enough to cope with any more than a few players. A dedicated server, though, has an Internet connection with much higher speeds which is why it can be called upon to support hundreds and hundreds of players at a time. The actual developer behind games of this size needs a server bank, which is just a room with many dedicated servers. Just like with traditional banks, these server banks are usually located all over the world in multiple countries to provide redundancy in the face of the unexpected. Obviously, the cost associated not just with running these servers, but also maintaining and housing them, is substantial. However, the stability is unrivaled. They create a connection between players that gives everyone an almost identical experience with their game. Conclusion The more complicated a game, the more necessary it is that a dedicated server be used to host it. At the rate things are going, though, just about every game is going to be this complicated in the very near future.'' source: https://www.serverpronto.com/spu/2015/11/why-dedicated-servers-are-better-than-p2p/ '' [quote]Abstract- Recently, P2P (peer-to-peer) online game sys- tems have attracted a great deal of public attention. They work without central servers, thus, the mainte- nance and organization costs have been drastically re- duced. However, in P2P systems, it is difficult for game creators to prevent cheats by malicious players, due to the lack of trusted servers[/quote] .'' source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221157453_How_to_Protect_Peer-to-Peer_Online_Games_from_Cheats [b]tickrate[/b]: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/217883646 [b]peer to peer and cheating examples[/b] : Destiny: https://www.polygon.com/2016/10/26/13394068/destiny-trials-of-osiris-ruined-cheaters-ddos-spam For honor: http://www.gamerevolution.com/features/peer-to-peer-ddos-attacks-threaten-for-honor-future-success-p2p Conclusion: alot of greatly designed and well made games fail just because of peer to peer and many examples can be found, just go and look for yourselfs. [b][u]Disclaimer: I'm not here to hate on Bungie or Destiny or any of it's development team, I love Destiny as a whole , PVE and PVP and only want to see it reach it's full potential and success. The community of Destiny to me was the only community on a game I ever really cared for and the only one I ever care to see live a long and prosperous future. the servers, crucible balance and lack of content will only ever be the real reasons it will ever be held back in reaching its full potential and success. In my opinion.[/u][/b]