Can you envision a way that this would help with fighting bosses too? I'd be interested if there was a way.

There are times where you might need to chase after an ad running away that it might help, or you need to get over to your friends quick and you just pop it to live. Like if your looking for ammo you can just use your super to quickly return to your position. Or how about using it as like a portal gun sort of thing, you leave a spear on the ground and the next one you toss could act as a gate way you and your friends could go through, that would be cool.

That's good for general play, and has some pretty good utility. My major concern, though, is whether people will use something like that in a raid. I know it's only one part of the Destiny experience, but I feel like, in order to be truly versatile, a class has to be something that's useful even in those toughest situations, and being able to put out enough damage or augment the fireteam's damage are really the only effective ways we've seen that work so far. I don't see Arcstrider being able to reach those heights if it's stuck with melee strikes only. For that matter, the change to Fist of Havoc may make Striker less viable in the raids as well. I mean... Ir Yut is pretty much an add only encounter... and I still don't see Bladedancers there. Nightstalkers are still so much better. If we have Nightstalkers in Destiny 2... will people use Arcstrider?

Well, I could make the same arguement for sentinel, it only blocks in a small area, it has a rather slow projectile throwing speed, and most of it's hits are close range, so they are similar in terms of usability, however, I don't think that the super alone would be a reason that I wouldn't use it. I would still use the class because of it's potential for ad destruction, however, sunbreaker is coming back so that same arguement is valid. They took our best pve class, and turned it into a crappy mobile super, blade dancer and arcstrider may be similar, but I still see arc strider being better compared to sentinel for things like raid, so far. In fact, most of the time in raids your saving your super so super shouldn't really be a deciding factor for raids, and who knows, they haven't exactly shown us the skill tree yet (unless streamers did but idk about that) Idk though, I'm just hoping both are more useful than they seem, because even sentinel looks like it will be kind of useless, even compared to the new mobile striker. They basically made the old, worst supers better, while also greatly boosting the already better subclasses, rip defender.

There are parts in the video so far (and who knows if they get them to work this way all the time, so I'll concede it might not be perfect up front) where the Sentinel is able to do some pretty amazing things. First thing, toss the shield into a group of three adds and it bounces between each, killing them in less than a second. That's one shield toss, at distance, 3 targets, so no, most of its hits are NOT close range. And while the shield travels a little slowly (the speed of yoru animation is pretty quick), it's at least got great utility there, and as soon as you throw it, you've already got another in your hand. It's not going to be hard to throw 4 or 5 shields in 2 or 3 seconds. That might use the whole super, but it looks like you can defend instead too. Second, on the point of defending, there's also a shot of a Sentinel pressing forward with a shield and a Hunter following behind shooting from behind the cover of the Sentinel's shield. It DOES appear to block the damage. So while it MAY not (as we don't know yet) add a buff like weapons/blessing of light, it has been changed from a small, stable spot to being mobile if you want. And if you want a stable defense point with better coverage, you can pop your class ability first so that people either have a wider area to stand behind OR they are protected from behind as well. You can hole up in a corner, and if you combine it with the Warlock class ability... arguably MORE useful than the bubble. The ONLY real drawback that I see is that you have to maintain the Sentinel shield, whereas the Defender Bubble was an instant cast and you could then start in on the gunplay (which is the only non-blaster subclass (like Striker, Voidwalker, and Celestial Nighthawk Gunslinger in D1) that doesn't have to maintain the super). The three biggest "utility" classes appear to be gone/changed. We haven't seen anything for the Nightstalker, the Hunter utility. The Sunsinger is now the Dawnbreaker, though I don't think they'll be entirely sad about losing self-revive and Viking Funeral as they can now do flying and flame-hammer equivalent. But Defender change to Sentinel is NOT a terrible change for Titans. You make the point that people save their supers in raids anyway so who cares, but what you fail to do is ask WHY people save their supers. And the reason is that they're incredibly powerful and using them in the right times and places increase their utility immensely. In a raid, why use a tether on a few adds when you can use it on the boss and increase the damage output of EVERYONE on your fireteam? The most powerful supers in the game are pretty much game changers for this reason. Blasters output immense damage instantly, damage augmentors increase everyone's damage for longer periods (Defender, Nightstalker & Sunsinger with Viking Funeral), Sunbreaker can use Sunspots to put out massive amounts of damage on bosses too, and even Stormcaller has utility when there are still adds coming at you, such as in Golgoroth. But Bladedancer doesn't augment power, it has never put out massive damage quickly (they've slowly nerfed the damage that it originally did anyway) and it's not great for DoT on bosses because it's close range (Sunbreaker & Stormcaller at least have some range) and it will get a Hunter killed. There is utility in every single subclass, even the two new Titan & Warlocks classes. I only JUST found the little bit of range attack that Arcstriders look like they have... and it's pathetic. Look from 2:07 to 2:09 in this trailer and you'll see there's a short forward burst that goes ahead of the poledancer a few feet. That's the BEST I've been able to find. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn1dML6RC5w&index=1&list=PLZUnIN1M4R_9yoPSXzV6x7d70fpy1l_eK#t=83.431661 It's pathetic...

I'm not trying to attack the Titan super, or defending the arc strider so far, I'm just saying that what defender USED to be is now completely gone. Sentinel looks like it focuses more on ad control rather than actual defense and I really don't like that. I'm simply trying to make the point of it now being more of a downgrade compared to how it used to be. Striker overall seems like it would still do what the sentinel does except better, not exactly safer, but better. I have also seen that the shield ricochets but one of the problems I have with it, is since they don't track or magnetize or whatever until after the first hit, how often do you think you might miss an ad at a distance. Now onto the point you made about the class ability, and this is what I find most flawed: Since the super and the class itself has the ability to block, doesn't that defeat the purpose of a super that is a shield? Now I know we have no information on the abilities yet but from what I can guess, there isn't anything really that useful. So to summarize, they gave us pinball hammers without blast radius or tracking, added shoulder charge, and gave it a block ability that's smaller and less durable than the original ward of dawn. As it is it appears to have no superior traits over striker, and if sunbreaker comes out even more so, it's just a disappointing super they tried to make cool, but failed. Arc strider is literally just radial blade dancer, but other than that I know nothing about it :/

I was really just trying to say that they changed the way you defend with the shield, but that the old utility is still there, with new possiblities added. There are ways to accomplish what you used to accomplish. Missing is an incredibly important part of an FPS. Rewarding skill and punishing the unskilled teaches people to game better. You;ll learn how to aim it, and when to take enemies by surprise with it, those sorts of things. But having that option to actually throw it is an increase on how it used to be used, especially because you'll have another shield in your hands immediately. The class ability does not defeat the purpose of the shield super. The shield super is mobile, the class ability is not. The super is inherently more valuable because you can now shift and change your tactics with it. People never really dropped a bubble in the wrong spot, but it's easy to confine people to the specific place they drop the bubble. Normally you want to stay in that one spot anyway in PVE, but you can choose to stay in one spot now, or you can move if the encounter shifts and/or changes around you. Also, there is information on the class abilities, people got to use them with the Striker subclass at the launch event. There are two types, one is half your height and you cover behind it to gain a bonus (don't remember the exact effect) and the other is full size (I believe with no effect, but of course it's a better block). Also, if you watch during the "live" gameplay, the shield that gets thrown and misses then bounces back and goes after a cabal that jumped away. So they do still track, and can even bounce between targets. However, we [b]don't[/b] know whether it's total size (it might cover a larger front area than the bubble did) or its durability (I'd assume it lasts your entire super period, so maybe it's got less time, but we'll see how many Golden Gun shots it can take. The Defender bubble could only take 2, after all. It has the obvious superior traits over striker of: A) being defensive, which makes it a rally point for fellow guardians. B) being ranged, which makes it much safer to use on bosses C) It's easier to approach melee with it as you're not taking damage, so your shoulder charge will not put you in incredible danger. D) It looks like it does damage by bouncing between enemies in the same amount of space as a titan slam, just slower. But it's still done [b]from range[/b] so it's still better. You're looking at it in a negative light on purpose, and not trying to figure out how to best utilize it. That's the real issue here. If you studied it a bit and tried to figure out ways to play with it, you'd have an easier time being happy with it.

I think your missing the overall point I am trying to make. They took defender, arguable the best pve super which supported the WHOLE team, cut it's block size down, gave it a shorter time, and made it more of an offensive mobile super. It's basically an ad control super that can be used at a distance, but that wasn't the problem I have with it. It's that it isn't really a defensive super anymore, sure it can block and move but honestly what use is that aside from crucible? In destiny currently there isn't a reason to both block and move, you would place your bubble and your team, while both being buffed, would also have a safe place to defend, while also not putting the users life in danger. Now onto the reason I was comparing the shield toss to striker, yes it's ranged, but even against bosses that isn't all that important because you won't be using the super on anything but ads, but you will have to stop blocking to do attack, you keep making the point of range, range, range, but a super meant to defend one point doesn't need anything but a powerful multitarget attack. And striker does that same job only with more risk, but that's understandable for better ad control. Now another point I'm going to make, if they bring back sunbreaker, not only will sentinel be worse in comparison for ad control, it will also be at a disadvantage in general because the only thing going for it is the blocking. I know we don't have much info on it but realistically the whole point of a defensive, mobile super is non existent. Defender did its job perfectly, now we have a weaker, shorter duration shield with mobility and ad control, so much for "defensive" And I'm not trying to be so harsh on the super we don't know much about, but from what I've seen it almost exclusively lost what made defender great, and that was a support defensive super, not slower sunbreaker with shield ability :/

Alright, you're making a ton of assumptions here, and I keep trying to point them out to you. You are looking at it as a negative, like you want it to be, because you think defender is good (which it is) and believe that changing it at all is a mistake. First of all, your assumption that it is weaker is baseless. We have not seen how strong or weak it is. You're assuming it's weaker, and you may be right, but you DEFINITELY have the possibility of being wrong. Stop. Saying. It's weaker. You [b]don't[/b] know that. Yes, it may be shorter in duration, but I'm the one that said that particular point to concede, so I'm going to let it stand. But I'll also observe that that was a MAYBE. It MAY have a shorter duration. It's also possible that if you don't throw the shield, it's the same length. Yes, that would mean that you're not throwing it, but that would still be a long duration. Then you say it does not support the whole team. You have no idea how much area it defends. It's more than likely that you can stick an entire team behind it and block massive amounts of damage. Bungie originally designed the Defender so that it could be used to escape damage in important raid experiences, and you think they're going to completely remove that? MAYBE we'll need two sentinels because each one only fits three others behind it, but I'm sure it will at least cover everyone in a strike, if not more. You say it "isn't really a defensive super anymore". The MAIN draw of the super is that it is defensive. It is the ONLY defensive super in the entire game. And guess what, now that it isn't a bubble that prevents us from shooting, we no longer have to pop in and out of it. You can stand behind it (and with a warlock rift to up damage, no weapons of light needed) and then just have your team shoot for days. No need to stop, no need to hide and cover. You also say there's no use to moving with defense in PVE. Destiny 2 is all about changing up the dynamic. There may be many new and different encounters. What if we have a longer hallway with mass amounts of enemies coming at us? What if there's a Cabal drill behind us pushing us forward into enemy fire? What about being stuck between two laser grids slowly rotating around a giant Vex and you have to shoot the vex while it shoots at you, and you can't drop a bubble because you need to move sideways and that would waste the bubble (oh wait, there's already a strike like that). There's tons of possibilities where it might be useful. The range and melee capabilities are merely an icing on the cake that allow the super to be used for more than just a popped bubble, but also make it fun and diverse. It alters the experience. It makes it viable for solo world exploration. Yes, you'll likely go to Sunbreaker or Striker if you want to smash the foes to bits, but people are just as likely to prefer the Sentinel because it has a diverse number of utilities. It has great versatility, great utility, and its risk vs reward comparison is incredibly high as it will be the only defensive super in the game. I mean, we won't even have Self-Res anymore for goodness sake.

I'm not saying it's "weaker" I'm just saying considering how much they changed it it's basically just a mix of shoulder charge and throwable frisbees, which is a combination that works well against ads, but not all that well in terms of defense like you were trying to state it can be. I'm not saying I'm right, but it's also baseless to say I'm wrong, because I also could be completely right, not just completely wrong. Since we haven't seen anything about it, it's better to assume it's not going to be as great as people make it out to me, I'm trying to see past the hype people are giving it. I want it to be good, I want it to be useful, but from what I've seen so far I can't quite say I will find any real use with it over striker, maybe you do, but with such a lack of information I'm going to have to make my decision now. Its going to suck to me until proven otherwise.

You stated that it was a certain way, while I was saying not necessarily. You continued to state that it was definite, and when it is not definite the way you say it is, you're... wrong. And no, you didn't use the exact word weaker, but: "It's that it isn't really a defensive super anymore, sure it can block and move but honestly what use is that aside from crucible?" This suggests that it is weaker than it was. That it's not really defensive ANY MORE is comparison between now and then, and stating that now it is not as strong as it was, therefore it is weaker. Come on man, ave some integrity in your arguments. Trying to see past the hype doesn't work if you shut your eyes and cover them with your fingers. No, it's not the captain america shield and incredible all around fixer-upper that people say it is, and no, it's not going to be as good at straight up defense as the literal force-field that was the bubble. But that doesn't mean it sucks. Bungie has given it A VERITABLE LOAD OF DIVERSELY USEFUL FEATURES. It's not... going... to suck. If you think it sucks, it's because you haven't closely looked at the footage of what it does. So go actually look at it bounce between enemies and kill each one it hits. Go look at it track enemies when thrown. Go look at the shoulder charge. Go look at it defend fireteam members. Don't "make [your] decision now" with the lack of information, GO LOOK.