I don't really think that the weapons from KF are shit. Compared with the loot table of legendaries now or even at the time, they are pretty good. You have to go back though. We had Vault, Crota, then PoE and Skolas if you want to count them. But particularly, certain weapons and gear reigned. Most notably? Well, you're seeing them return in a way. [b]Elemental Primaries.[/b] Light level didn't even work the same, for those of you that didn't play. Light level was lvl 20+, up to 30, then 32 for TDB, then 34 in HoW. It is extremely important to note that until TTK expansion, max light level was exclusive to raid gear. If you wanted lvl 30, you needed Vault Raid gear. 32, you needed Crota gear. 34 was unique in that you just needed to grind PoE (even without prior raid gear) to get the max. And I might be mistaken, but this is when trials came out and max may have been attained that way. Not to mention, it wasn't enough to just get the raid gear. You then had to delve back into raids to even level up the nodes on the gear. This is what was meant by "Max Gally". It was not simply enough to get Gjallarhorn to drop, because not only did it not have the max damage number it could have (you had to level the weapon up and slowly raise the damage number), but it also wouldn't even trigger the wolfpack rounds (the main exotic perk that makes it a beast) until you'd leveled almost all of the skill tree. Raid weapons were [i]even worse[/i]. You needed the ascendant materials from the raid chests and encounters just to level up a VoC or a Fatebringer. This meant going back into the raids and grinding it out. Now, I'm not saying all this to beat a dead horse or toot the year one player horn. It's relevant because look at how things changed with TTK. Elemental primaries, and even other raid weapons like Black Hammer, were among the most coveted weapons in the game. And you had to raid to get them. And the armor you [i]needed[/i] to hit max. So along comes September and TTK. A lot of changes were made for the better. But whether we liked it or not, Elemental primaries were gone. Light level wasn't even tied to the raid gear anymore. The gear that we got in Kings Fall paled in comparison to the old raids. There were no dominant beasts like Black Hammer. There were no sought after primaries. They were just legendaries like the next gun. As useful as cocoon actually was, it felt like a cheap joke next to the perks of the older raid weapons. And you'd be raiding alongside dudes that were max light and never set foot in any raid, wielding legendary guns that were arguably better to use than your Smite of Merrain or Doom of Chelchis. It was a big turning point because Destiny as a whole started to operate differently. While most of that was overwhelmingly for the better, there's no dispute that people were let down by the lackluster raid gear. By comparison, the weapons of the old were just far better. Hell they have even brought them back. That's how strongly everyone felt about the elemental primaries and raid weapons. Granted they now make you load out more carefully because they are exotic. But if you've read this much of a long winded ass post, maybe read a little further. In my opinion the KF weapons didn't suck. They just had a tough act to follow. They were the first bit of gear in a new age. I can tell you right now a full auto Doom of Chelchis is a beast. PvE, PvP, whatever. It hits hard and is satisfying to use. (Wish I hadn't cleaned it out of my vault). Smite of Merrain is also pretty fxcking solid. The Sniper is really phenomenal as far as snipers go, though it isn't leaps and bounds ahead or anything. The Machine Gun is just awesome. It was the one weapon that made sense to have Cocoon, because of the horrid reload times of Heavy MG's, it made it a breeze to stow it away, then pull it out freshly reloaded seconds later. Not to mention rockets are not a strong weapon in KF Raid itself, so this weapon was a go to both for adds and dps auras. I [i]still[/i] use this thing to this day. About the biggest problem I actually had with the raid weapons was that they looked like teeth stuck together with bubble gum. And they look pretty similar. I often couldn't tell the difference between the scout and the sniper in 1st person just having them in my hand. I'm actually really excited to see them with elemental primaries now. It's something we never got to see and test out. I know people will tar and feather me for this but I actually thought if Doom had an element and more useful perk, it could in its own way rival something like VoC. We just never got to see any of that because these weapons were the unfortunate guinea pigs of a new era of weapons. Yeah so [b]TL; DR[/b] -- KF weapons are good but were overshadowed by year one raid weapons, like Elemental primaries. The change left people disgusted and made us wonder why we should raid for relatively inferior gear that won't matter for max light.