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#feedback

Edited by Saifgrey: 4/11/2017 5:28:57 PM
24

The Special Ammo Economy...

EDIT: Obligatory "trending" edit. Before I plunge into this, I just want to take a moment to state that I'm not at all the most qualified person to write about this. I don't consider my opinion to be above anybody else's, and I'm just putting up suggestions. Feel free to disagree or agree, but let's try to keep it civilized. Ok. Let's get into this! Undoubtedly, the chief complaint of the state of special ammo is the fact that all of it is taken away after death. And although boxes spawn much more frequently, for the average player without special, it can be a repetitive cycle of waiting for special, getting special, dying via someone with special, and so on. Therefore, I have 2 suggestions that will most likely never get passed since AoT was the send-away update. But why the hell not? I'll go anyways. So, for my first solution, I propose that half your special gets removed from death, and that it can be picked up solely by the guardian that killed you. That way, you're not completely stripped of your ammo, while the person that killed you is rewarded for the kill. Special Ammo box spawn rates could be increased a bit to keep special ammo... well, special. For my second solution, half the amount of special earned in boxes, reduce the timer by 10 seconds, and keep special on death. Now that I'm typing this out, it seems crappier than how it was in my head, but hear me out. People complain about having to camp special boxes. Alternatively, many have argued that special ammo should be special, as in difficult to aquire. With this solution, you will have less special ammo overall, but the "camp" time is reduced to compensate. You will have to use special in a much more conservative manner to remain a threat (or just use a primary, but that's not what this post is about), however you won't have to spend too much time camping boxes, which lets you do more for your team. I suppose people could just keep camping special 'till they max out, so I'll leave it to others to think of something better. I've seen a ton of other posts petitioning for a change in the special ammo economy. Although there most likely won't be a change, it doesn't hurt to try to petition for one. To those that enjoy the current change, three cheers for you! But honestly, I've never seen less diversity with special weapons. Not a day one player, but before these changes, I at least saw a few voopers, a great deal of shotty-warriors and snipers, and a few sidearm-warriors in the field. I can't say the same now, especially for all the voopers out there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EDIT: Solution by Oddish All players start with 5-6 special rounds, depending on weapon type and impact. Chests spawn at 4 minutes and 7 minutes. Each has 2-3 rounds in it, again depending on type and impact. Only two chests may be picked up by any player. No ammo is lost upon death. None has to be, because there is a hard limit on it. In trials, fresh chests spawn at Round 3 and Round 6. EDIT: Solutions by Nessa for Life - Nerf the amount of special per box - Give flat amount of special ammunition per match - Special boxes spawn once per match, like heavy (although maybe twice might be a tad bit better) EDIT: Suggestion by Ogkegster2 - Just use your primary. EDIT: Solution by fookr - On death, you drop a certain amount of ammo depending on the weapon type and archetype EDIT: Solution by Rezonate - Start with full special. No more special ammo afterwards. Sidearms still proc a magazine upon respawn. EDIT: Solution by RockGamer26 - Lose 20% of special upon respawn; lose no special upon revive - Lower amount of special ammo in boxes - Special ammo boxes every 70 seconds EDIT: Suggestion by King Cepheus - Don't box camp. EDIT: Solution by WhitEWatchEs - Keep current economy for 6v6, revise for 3v3 only (specifically ToO) EDIT: Solution/Suggestion by Enigmatic Entity - Don't camp special. Pick it up when it is convenient. EDIT: Note by oOutsidero26 - Leave it where it is. EDIT: Solution by TheStormRonin - Remove special ammo boxes from all playlists save 3v3s - Special ammo drops on non-special kills. Lose 40% of current special on death. - Special ammo is no longer auto-loaded into the special weapon. A reload is required. EDIT: Solution by MajorShagen - Get special ammo. Laugh while emptying it into the vacuum of space (where sound technically shouldn't be heard but space magic and whatnot). Profit. EDIT: Solution by Professah Stein - Improve TTK on primaries. Then revert special economy changes. EDIT: Solution by JustAnthrAlt - Sidearms lose ammo upon death as well EDIT: Solution by ValhallianVilin - Make PvP Y1 EDIT: Solution by WardenMagen - Sidearms keep a magazine on spawn (belive that's how it is currently). All other specials get 1 unit of ammunition on spawn.

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  • So for my devils dawn id get one bullet per box

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    • Full mag for each spawn for Sidearms. Whilst this could equate to 3 kills, reality is for most, likely only 1 with a few left in chamber for follow up if you don’t hit another crate All other specials, which are OHK in the main, get 1 round each spawn A special and primary should work in unison to cover the range variable. Your dominant play style and range is covered by your primary, the special for the outlying range. At least with 1 shot, you’re not completely crippled with a limited working range, but you still have to be smart with usage. If you stay alive, you pick up more special ammo, so you are rewarded with flexibility for playing well. If you die a lot, at least you get 1 shot before you die again, which wouldn’t promote a trend unless you care nothing for K/D numbers

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      • Dude just use your primary, don't wait around for special.

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          Here's my solution: Stop camping special like you need it and play the game with primaries. If you happen to come across a convenient special box, take it. Pretty sure this is the intention too!

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          • Special is fine right now. Boxes spawn frequently enough that loss of ammo is almost a non-issue. Your weapon also auto-reloads on ammo pickup. The change incentivises more defensive play for special weapons, rather than the pervasive and aggressive play we've seen in the past.

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            • Or, you just leave it where it is....

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              • Nah make pvp y1 again

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                • How about we start everyone off in the game with full Special ammo. That's it. You get no more. 6v6 by the end of games will come into primary only fights. 3v3 will mostly unaffected unless a person just well...sprays their special. Trials would award teamwork in the way of getting your enemy to waste their ammo. It would put an interesting element into trials. Don't be wasteful. This will make ammo conservation perks useful and curb desired god rolls a bit. Sidearms when ammo is depleted will always bring you back with 1 mag.

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                  • I hate to say it though, I like the changes as secondary specials aren't primaries anymore.

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                    • I agree with being able to have a max amount of ammo per player per game and being able to keep it after dying I would also still like this idea mixed with the dying and spawning with half of the special that the person had. I think this would be a great change because I find crucible these days pretty frustrating to get any of those bounties done and actually have fun because of the A. No land beyond sweats. B. Sidearm meta slaves. Although can't really blame them for using what is strong but -blam!-ing hell no need to try hard every single damn game with the no land x sidearm there is always one In every game. Icebreaker is fine but I've seen people complain but at least it takes away the ability to carry a sidearm which these days out guns any primary with minimal effort used.

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                      • Edited by JustAnthrAlt: 4/9/2017 4:33:58 PM
                        I see where you're coming from with this post, but personally I love where special ammo is currently, minus sidearms (they should lose special ammo too... they have the highest TTK minus any one shot weapons). Seriously, shotgun warriors have to be thoughtful of their next engagement instead of mindlessly running around with one the entire game.

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                        • [quote]Before I plunge into this, I just want to take a moment to state that I'm not at all the most qualified person to write about this. I don't consider my opinion to be above anybody else's, and I'm just putting up suggestions. Feel free to disagree or agree, but let's try to keep it civilized. Ok. Let's get into this! [/quote] This comment alone earned you a lifelong pass to "never let me kick you in the ass" [spoiler]We need more feedback users like you.[/spoiler]

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                          • Best solution: Improve the TTK on primary's, then and only then, reverse the ammo economy to pre-patch. No solution will fix the abuse of ranged shotguns+mobility if the TTK on primaries is sped up.

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                            • Response to Ogkegster : I DID use my primary, most of the time. I got punished right along with other special users.

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                              • Here's my solution. Remove special ammo boxes completely except in 3v3 Game modes. Have special ammo drop on kills in all other playlists (2-3 rounds per drop). Special ammo does not drop on kills with a Special weapon, and ammo is no longer auto loaded into your weapon. Lose 40% of your maximum ammo capacity on death

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                                • I haven't really noticed players camping by ammo crates all that much. If an ammo crate is 10 seconds or over i ignore it and get back into the fight. And i think most other players do as well. I rarely see anyone just standing there by an ammo crate when there's more than 10 or 15 seconds left. I've also experienced some intense fighting for ammo crates which makes things a little more interesting and fun. And if you play enough games you will memorize exactly when and where ammo crates will drop ammo. So if you keep an eye on the time and make a note of where ammo crates are you shouldn't be out of special all the time. I like the changes made to special. It really feels like you still get enough special to be effective in the match but not so much where you can spam special kills all day long.

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                                  • [quote]for the average player without special, it can be a repetitive cycle of waiting for special, getting special, dying via someone with special, and so on[/quote] There's your problem: waiting for special. You're not supposed to do that anymore.

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                                    • Here is my solution. When I see a special ammo crate that is about to give special ammo, I wait and get it, then I fire four shots of my shotgun into the air to get rid of it and laugh at all the sidearm and sniper nursing babies. If you are using a fusion rifle in crucible, you get my respect, unless you main a No Land Beyond

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                                      • I like where it's at for 6s. Really don't have any issues other than how bad shotguns are in air. All it did was bring down the skill gap in that area. You're better off just using your melee in air than shooting a shotgun. Unless the RNG gets lucky and you hit them...but you'll only do about 50 damage anyways. Trials is a mess. They need to allow special to carry over each round. I pretty much quit trials after the update knowing how cancerous it would become.

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                                        • I came back for AoT and play a crucible match: the conversation with myself is as follows: [quote]What the h*** my specials gone died again* its gone again, this has to be a bug finished match and goes to news to check when or if it was implemented in game* well, guess it's not...[/quote] the problem with what they have now is that it's forcing special users, to either use a sidearm or an ammo regen exotic, unless you're willing to dump hundreds of hours into the game, which 99% don't have, to not die. myself being a shotgunner (not always happy to admit that) I find my crucible experience totally ruined and no fun to play since I die quite a lot my recommendation is as follows -keep ammo on revive -lower amount of special received -special regens every 70 seconds

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                                          • Keep it like it is except that instead of losing all special ammo it drops to a small amount like a clips worth. When I say like, I mean the number needs to vary depending on weapon. Low RoF weapons should have less ammo than high RoF, despite Bungie's current idiotic setup. And in case this wasn't clear already. You wouldn't gain ammo on death except with side arms that would spawn with that lower limit value.

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                                            • I like primaries vs primaries

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                                              • No, it doesn't hurt. And I will add a third suggestion. Yours are good, and I admit I am especially intrigued by the one where you lose half on death and your killer can pick it up. But it doesn't hurt to offer one more option, even if (as you say) Bungie is unlikely to implement it. Note that the following is designed not as my ideal meta, but one that: * Promotes primary usage. * Keeps specials reliable, if used in moderation (the current meta does the opposite) * Affects novice and expert players equally (the current meta devastates novices while allowing experts to go on rampages). * Only affects those who use specials excessively (the current meta affects all those who use specials period). All players start with 5-6 special rounds, depending on weapon type and impact. Chests spawn at 4 minutes and 7 minutes. Each has 2-3 rounds in it, again depending on type and impact. Only two chests may be picked up by any player. No ammo is lost upon death. None has to be, because there is a hard limit on it. In Trials, fresh chests spawn at Round 3 and Round 6.

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                                                • I like what they accomplished in making primary battles more common. However, I like to use whatever weapon fits the job. That means that I use my primary or my secondary based on the situation. Someone is rushing me about to shoulder charge? Shotgun. Guy mid-range using a handcannon to fire at me? Scout or Pule Rifle. Certain weapons make sense in certain situations. Secondaries should be secondary, but that doesn't mean they should be effectively removed from circulation or that I should have to camp a box so I'm prepared for an up close (or far away for those who are better than me and snipe) encounter. I've said this many times. Special was out of hand, sure. The solution should have been to nerf the amount of special ammo dropped from boxes or to give us a flat amount of special and either remove special boxes all together or make it drop once per match like heavy. Either solution would reduce the amount of special ammo in circulation, while still allowing people to choose the best weapon type for the situation at hand.

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