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6/17/2010 6:26:38 AM
290
Why didnt UNSC make more spartans?
i havent read any halo books at all but this always was in my mind. What stopped the UNSC from making more? was reach were they made them and even if it was why not start it on earth or something start Spartan 4's
Money wouldnt matter when theres a human genecide and even though they could have made money and or tax money and started more
BESIDES MONEY!
I understand tha Reach was the main Spartan base or whatever and that the economy was in the dumpster do to the covenant but they shouldve rquesition high ranked officers to be spartans and also the spartan project was never labled failed (actually i dont know if it was) and how could it fail spartans kicked ass they shouldve tried hard to bring it back either that or their more 2 it then we know
cant remeber who mentioned time but he makes a great point how many years did it take to produce a spartan.
and shouldnt they have mass produced spartans when the needed it most and why put them all on reach thats stratgically stupid if their glassing the damn planet you get the hell out of their and back up earth because god knows when there ganna find earth and that really only took like 10 years to find earth (Halo 2) and why only save chief there had to be somthing else to it i know it
Would you rather Kick Ass and screw money or die arguing over costs humanity could care less about money at a time like that but i understand resources and time are the main variables
Someone mentioned someone named Dr.Hasley who i presume is the woman who came up wth spartans and said she was likely dead.she would have shared how to creat it with fellow scientist and or the UNSC in general because it wouldnt be classified because their were no human v human fighting
Someone said hasley was the keeper of secrets if he kept the secrts of how to make a spartan and shes dead,if she is dead i dont know never read any of the books< then shes the stupidest woman i have ever heard of and good luck putting humanity in crash course with death.
And if you havent noticed i am actively updating this so i can prove a greater point
now someone said that spartan 3's were "disposable soliders" who the hell says that super soldiers are disposable and sure they were suicide missions but who the hell were they ganna send an army of marines.
And if dr.hasley was on onyx and she made more there had to be more soldiers which i do recall there were 3 spartans on onyx in the book never eread it but i heard about it.and if spartan 3's had a better efficincy rate why not sky rocket production into the mass production of spartans and also increasing the gene pool that could be used.
Matu Flp Krawfe made a comment saying this is fiction which is completly true and i love all the points hes making and stuff but im looking at this from the point of view that this is nonfiction that this isnt a story bungie made up what if this was real and what substantial things blocked the creation of new spartans.
Bungie you guys made the best -blam!- story line ever. you can interpret reach in so many ways because it hasnt been covered as much as the other parts of the halo universe so thats why i started this topic
I said besides money because i already understand that money and time were the issues and or main variable.The gene pool was also one to
Why not enhance genes to fit people into that gene pool or reproduce those who have said genes.Geregor mendel found these things out using the punett square so why not put that in to increase the amount of people with the genes
[Edited on 06.22.2010 7:07 PM PDT]
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what are you talking about there is a couple hundred thousand playing reach right now.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BC1096 besides money[/quote] Oh, we can fund a multi million dollar project without paying any money. Otherwise, it was experimental.
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It takes anywhere form 75-300 kids, all under the age of six, who are orphaned, with the proper genetic markers, to be a CANDIDATE. It ain't just "Bam, SPARTAN", bro. They trained they for 12 hours a day. To get breakfast, all of the SPARTAN-II's had to run for 12 hours, no breaks. Then they had school, then more running and exercise and war games. And many die during augmentations, they simply are not effecient to build. Ofc, if you can build them, they are deadly, but then there is cost. For the price of outfitting 75 SPARTANS, the UNSC could build a [i]fleet[/i] to go face down the Covenant.
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Money was a huge factor in making Spartans. Let's face it; you want to take a child, put time and resources into training him from 6 years old to become a great soldier, then take him and inject many different compounds containing various chemicals, some of those being extremely rare, knowing that most of these people will die in the process, being a waste to all the effort you spent forging them into who they were. Then you factor in the cost of the armor. The process was experimental at best, also. Any human eligible for the enhancements had to have a certain set of genes, and had to be a child that was trained and ready for augmentation. You could not just plant the genes into a person and say, "Hey, he's ready now!" Mendel experimented on plants, and if he failed one way, he could always get another plant. Humans are not just expendable. Failing meant severely mutating or killing the subject; you are indirectly suggesting that we can just throw them back into population and use another person. No. Spartans were created to battle the rebels and insurrectionists in the colonies. If the UNSC had known about the Covenent, and had the time to make all these Spartans, then they probably would have been urged to do so by the mass genocide. Also, the Spartans were on Reach because Reach was the military hub of the UNSC. You can't just give up your most valuable asset to the enemy. The Spartans were there to protect that asset, which, at the time, everyone believed was the key to winning the war. And yes, Spartan III's were disposable heroes. They were created as cheaper Spartan II's, with less augmentation and less training. However, again, it took years to create them as well, and you could not just put a man in a armored suit and call him a Spartan.
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human are, and always will be, greedy. even when an alien empire tries to wipe us out. also they kidnapped the children and survival rate wasn't very high
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Only a small percentage of the UNSC occupied world population could even have a CHANCE at surviving the augmentations, and the UNSC were originally going to have around 300 something but only around 60 something lived. (Correct statistics if wrong.) I know you said you didn't read the books but didn't it occur to you that the answer might be in the book? Sorry if I seem insulting I don't want to insult a fellow gamer but I just get exhausted explaining this to my friends who aren't hardcore fans like me.
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not enough time...they take a lifetime to shape into spartans
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Time, funds, lack of candidates. The Spartan II's also were not made to fight the covies. [Edited on 10.18.2010 5:52 PM PDT]
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As McHaMmerXmAc stated, the process of creating a spartan is long, difficult, and expensive. Not only was the augmentation difficult (In which many died, or were disabled), but the select few that were hand picked to be in the Spartan II program were hand picked based on traits that made them superior to your average human to begin with. There were too few to make a second batch of the Spartan II project, and the augmentation was a major turnoff for ONI. That said, the Spartan III project was created a bit later. They were cheaper. They were average kids. Their augmentation process was 100% successful. They could take large batches at a time, train them, and send them off in cheaper armor designed with active camouflage rather than shielding. Keep in mind, the Spartan II project wasn't designed to take out the Covenant. It was designed to take out insurrectionists. The Spartan III project came to fight the covenant - By sending in a suicidal strike force that was guaranteed not to return from battle. The reason for more Spartan IIs on the field wasn't necessarily money. It was more or less the fact that there weren't enough candidates to train into the program, and the augmentation was too dangerous. They were still pumping out Gamma Company of the Spartan III's during the end of the war. Ghosts of Onyx explains it. Go read that bit. You should understand.
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Money. A lot of money.
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Well, as I'm sure others have said, but they kinda stole the children that were made into Spartans. I figure if more kids just went missing, more people would be like "wtf, where's my kid?" And besides money constraints, technology constraints, they were experimental, and they wanted it to be as secret as possible(more money, time, and space would increase the chances others found out).
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The Fall of Reach explains how spartans were raised. It was a difficult process where they had to kidnap them as children, train them all of the way up to adulthood, spend probably the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of dollars for the armor, food and supplies to raise them, and not to mention a lot of the spartans did not even survive all of the way to their twenties. Although I have not read the novels in a long, long time I think that more than half of the spartans died because of the effect of the enhancements on their bodies. Anyone who feels free to add to this feel free to do so. The more you know lol.
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Actually they made about 275 spartans most of em died off and i think maybe 40 or less lived.
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i doubt they even have money when all of the human race is about do die
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Turns out they only needed one
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age of 7 *wink*
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The "canidates" for the program are pretty hard to come by. They need to be age of 7 (i think) then trained for many years before entering the various operations they have in store for them. This also includes the formula they use to create the spatans. A chemical that enlarges the muscle tissue, stimulates growth, and many other things that makes the spartans, well spartans. They try to find kids with the right genetic codex to work with these programs. However sometimes they get it wrong and the spartan in trainging either; dies, becomes horribly disfigured, or has to be in some sort of life support for the rest of their life. Then money comes to a factor, having personallized sheilds, and armor like a tank pretty much forks in quite a bit of money to pretty much buy yourself a small island. Also only spartans can use it. In the book The Fall of Reach, a sorry ass marine puts himself in the armor for a test and moves one finger then pretty much gets crushed with the shear amount of weight inside the suit, only spartans can carry that suit without such an event happening. Theres many reasons why, these are the best ones I can think of.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] trekonbt MONEY. they cost alot to feed, put augmentations for and the armor is expensive.[/quote] I still don't understand why, when you are facing the literal extinction of the human race, money is ANY sort of issue at all. Capitalism to the end, I suppose.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BC1096 Money isn't a priority when your species is at risk of being extinct. Most likely time was the main draw back for creating so many spartans. You can only kidnap so many kids, train, and do augmentation on so many individuals in a given time. this is true but why do they have to kidnapp em and i didnt know they kidnapped ppl lol[/quote] True, and besides it will take years to train some childs to be some grownup killing machines to
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First, since this is a long post and most people probably won't read all of it, can anyone tell me how to post without replying to a previous post? Because everything still cost money to make. Not everything used by the UNSC came from Earth. Some of the Outer Colonies didn't give a damn whether or not Earth fell. They figured they'd be fine without it. So, the UNSC still had to prioritize what to spend it's money on, and decided that it wasn't worth buying a single suit of armor when they could buy a frigate instead. Also, training and recruitment was a massive factor. The S-III was available to many, MANY times more candidates than the S-II project, but genetics was still a factor. Also, S-III was so secretive that they raised and trained S-IIIs on a planet that was a huge secret in and of itself, and was thought to be completely uninhabited. The trainers were Kurt, a S-II who's jetpack they secretly sabotaged so that he appeared to have died and drifted into space. He was then abducted to train the S-IIIs. The idea behind all the secrecy was that S-IIIs were specifically created to go on suicide missions behind enemy lines and simply attack priority targets until they all died. Of the first two companys no one survived from Alpha Company and only two people survived from Beta Company, one with serious psychological damage that left her mute for the rest of her life. Now, for those of you still reading this massive post who know anything about this stuff, any speculation as to what happened to the rest of Gamma Company? Assuming they didn't all die on Reach (which they may have, since in Lone Wolf you find a bunch of dead Spartans) shouldn't the UNSC have almost 300 Spartans out there somewhere? [Edited on 10.01.2010 5:08 PM PDT]
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ONI revived the thread
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] wafflepan [quote] And you do realize that bungie could have written that spartans will be standard components of the military of the future and could have had millions of them for it? That's the freedom of fiction, you can do whatever the hell you want with it. As a result, you cannot find any justification within any act of fiction because in doing so you're ultimately just running a circle within the insubstantial around the actual heart of the decision which has nothing to do with economy, for istance, because that economy is just as contrived as the choice to allow only a few spartans. [/quote] Bungie didnt write the books. Eric Nylund wrote First Strike, Fall of Reach, The Flood, and Ghosts of Onyx. Joseph Staten is the one who messed up Harvest, and I cant remeber who wrote cole protocol.[/quote] Im pretty sure Eric Nylund didnt write the flood. Thats the one im reading right now... Dont believe me? :http://www.amazon.com/Flood-Halo-William-C-Dietz/dp/0345459210/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280809056&sr=8-1
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Well, from what I understood from the books Ive read and whats on the internetz is that thats what the spartan III project was to be in-fact a cheaper and easier spartan project. Theyre armor isnt as good as Spartan IIs and they were orphans from all the fallen colonies from the war. http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Spartan_III Awesome website for questions like these.
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[quote] And you do realize that bungie could have written that spartans will be standard components of the military of the future and could have had millions of them for it? That's the freedom of fiction, you can do whatever the hell you want with it. As a result, you cannot find any justification within any act of fiction because in doing so you're ultimately just running a circle within the insubstantial around the actual heart of the decision which has nothing to do with economy, for istance, because that economy is just as contrived as the choice to allow only a few spartans. [/quote] Bungie didnt write the books. Eric Nylund wrote First Strike, Fall of Reach, The Flood, and Ghosts of Onyx. Joseph Staten is the one who messed up Harvest, and I cant remeber who wrote cole protocol.
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[quote]They cost mucho pesos[/quote] hahaha. [Edited on 08.02.2010 9:07 PM PDT]
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Well, genetic marker candidates were rare, mostly. Ethics was another thing that hampered the S2 project. If you recall Dr. Halsey had a change of heart soon after it entered the final phase. She then did her best to rectify her mistakes. Also, Project Mjolnir was very, very expensive. the UNSC needed a more cost effective option, which is where the S3 project comes in. It used augmentations that worked on a wider range of candidates with a much smaller drop-out margin. Also, each candidate was given SPI armor, which was pretty much worthless at first, but became somewhat useful later, and cost a fraction of the price that a suit of Mjolnir cost.
