Agreed. I understand the argument that Trials is the only reason why some people play this game, but the reality is that Trials is made up of basically the top 5-10% of PVPers. You may get a few dabbling in there hoping to complete the trials bounties, but the reality is that most or a majority of Destiny players don't even bother trying to play it. Even though it is such a small portion of the population, it is driving the balancing changes for the rest of the community, and the balancing patches are applied to ALL PHASES, even though the only phase trials players are worried about is TRIALS. Lets put the shoe on the other foot in a hypothetical for consideration: What if only 5-10% of the population played PVE, but ALL balancing patches were essentially made to please PVE players? This would lead to a REALLY bad result for PVP, and it wouldn't make much sense right? The same principal applies to changes made to please mainly trials players. When Trials drives balancing changes, its bad for EVERYONE else. The argument about PVE being "easy" and "you can finish it by using any weapon" isn't the point. Sure, I can complete ALL THE CONTENT in the game with just a sidearm, if I really wanted to and I had the patience to. But its the difference of using a garden trowel or a backhoe tractor to dig a hole. BOTH can get the job done, but one does it more efficiently. And in PVE, efficiency = less grind = less tedious grind = more fun. We need some highly efficient and fun killing machines in PVE, not just equipment that is "good enough" to get the job done. So by having 5-10% of the PVP population driving balance changes for the rest of the community, Trials ACTUALLY IS killing the game. It simply wouldn't make sense if the roles were reversed, and it doesn't make sense here. The solution in this case is to allow Trials to become standardized/generic combat. Trials vendors will allow you to pick up Trials weapons and Armor which you can ONLY USE IN TRIALS until you actually earn enough trials currency to purchase and keep those weapons. Bungie controls the weapons and armor, so they can control the balance better. And all guns are available to everyone, since they are essentially test weapons. When you go to the lighthouse, you can MAKE a gun/armor piece of your choice adept. This would please the Trials players as well as it removes the RNG from ruining their efforts by giving them something they don't need. And Trials is effectively balanced differently from EVERY other mode, and therefore, they don't NEED to make generalized balancing changes JUST to please Trials players. Trials is effectively quarantined from the rest of the game, and we can BOTH go on with our lives.

Not really at all no. The proof is in the fact that no one good at destiny had a problem taking out a blade dancer or found blade problematic, they make this nerf based on their experiences with it. And watching the stream you could tell the guys were pure trash in PVP (no offence to them but it's true)

Is it sad that the beta is better than the current state of destiny ;(

Bungie should introduce a new strike. Call it the Temple of Osiris. How it works: It is played in one environment all the time. The environment changes each week. Three Vandals come out. They are either armed with Wire Rifles and hang back sniping or Shock Blades and rush you. You kill them or they kill you. Three more Vandals come out. You kill them or they kill you. Three more Vandals come out. You kill them or they kill you. Three more Vandals come out. You kill them or they kill you. Three more Vandals come out. You kill them or they kill you. This repeats until the vandals kill you five times or you kill them five times. If they kill you five times you get one chance to try again but then you go back to orbit and have to start again If you win you tea bag the vandal's corpses vigorously until a spire forms. the spire opens a door and you go on to the next level. For the next level you are magically teleported back to the start of the same map. Three Vandals come out. They are either armed with Wire Rifles and hang back sniping or Shock Blades and rush you. You kill them or they kill you. Three more Vandals come out. You kill them or they kill you. Three more Vandals come out. You kill them or they kill you. Three more Vandals come out. You kill them or they kill you. Three more Vandals come out. You kill them or they kill you. This repeats until the vandals kill you five times or you kill them five times. If they kill you five times you get one chance to try again but then you go back to orbit and start again If you win you tea bag the vandal's corpses vigorously until a spire forms. the spire opens a door and you go on to the next level. For the next level you are magically teleported back to the start of the same map. Three Vandals come out. They are either armed with Wire Rifles and hang back sniping or Shock Blades and rush you. You kill them or they kill you. Three more Vandals come out. You kill them or they kill you. Three more Vandals come out. You kill them or they kill you. Three more Vandals come out. You kill them or they kill you. Three more Vandals come out. You kill them or they kill you. This repeats until the vandals kill you five times or you kill them five times. If they kill you five times you get one chance to try again but then you go back to orbit and start again If you win you tea bag the vandal's corpses vigorously until a spire forms. the spire opens a door and you go on to the next level. Unbelievably this repeats for seven rounds. The final time you beat the Vandals, you go to a magical place called the "Lighthouse" where you get loot.

Like it or not there is too much truth in this thread. Trials was originally a fun thing that allowed an end game activity to PVP players but overall because of both PVP players and Bungie's mistakes , it turned out to be the cancer of the Destiny. We PVE players had our Raids , Prison and PVP players needed their own end game activity , thats why i saluted initial Trials introduction to the game. Originally Trials matchmaking system allowed mid tier fireteams to reach to Lighthouse, It was not easy but it was possible. However with The Taken King , Bungie changed matchmaking system just because of Reddit PVP fans requests. This resulted too many issues and mostly introduced Paid carries because changed matchmaking reduced the chance of mid skill lvl fireteams to reach to Lighthouse. Players ego also ended up stopping other players having fun just because they wanted to showcase with their rewards , gears that they are better then the rest. Bungie did too many mistakes with Trials also , stupidly designed bounty system with ROI educed player numbers on Trials a lot. Bungie did nothing to stop paid caries and now Trials is streamers main income area. Where streamers generate crazy amount of income over low skilled players. Bungie also catered too much to PVP players and applied too many unnecessary nerfs just to make Trials a better place so Paid Carries can go on. Lets also not forget Destiny's biggest advantage over other games even today is the ability to play the PVE content with your friends. Without this Destiny would be dead long ago because it doesn't offer great PVP experience over other games that are specifically designed for PVP All stats clearly highlight one thing : There are way more PVE players then PVP players and PVE playing time is way more then PVP playing time. Thats why i fully support the removal of Trials of Osiris from Destiny all together. This may hurt Bungie as they will not get free advertisement on Twitch , however it will save the future of their franchise.

Yea Bungie completely sacrificed pve in the last 2 years to keep people playing pvp. All weapons patches are specifically tailored to pvp with absolutely no thought given to how it will affect pve. It's ridiculous.

Do you remember the days before Trials existed? Man they were good times. People just played the game for fun. The forums were generally a pleasant place to be. No rabid crying about actually being killed by a weapon type and frothing at the mouth until it was nerfed out of the game. Ahh, that crazy 1% hey, dictating the game for everyone else. Not really their fault though. If Bungie had separated PvP from PvE can you imagine how quiet and pleasant these forums would be for the majority of the player base?! Just imagine being able to use the Vex or Thorn in PvE as they were intended instead of them rotting in your vault 😏 Please, Please Bungie. Separate PvP and PvE in D2 and just let us play the game 👍🏻

[quote]This was supposed to be an epic space fantasy. Now, the performance of every weapon and subclass in the game is constantly held hostage by one game mode that has nothing to do with the core elements of the game's universe. I hated it when it launched, and it becomes clear with every patch that trials is always the priority, leaving all the PvE players out in the cold. Bungie, you are going to have to make some pretty substantial changes to how trials effects destiny if you expect any pre-orders for Destiny 2. Edit: for those who claim that trials is what keeps destiny going, I'm going to have to fundamentally disagree. Point #1: The thing that keeps destiny going is the thing that people hate the most about it: RNG. At its core, Destiny is a loot based shooter with an RPG foundation. The gameplay loop of loot based games centers on gaining power for your character to take on tougher challenges, to get better loot. The loot itself is the reward system that the game is based upon. Point # 2: Bungie employees have specifically stated that Trials is intended for only 1% if the player base. Making changes based on 1% of the player base that undermine the core gameplay loop underlying what destiny is poisons the entire game. The loot reward system loses its power when players are always skeptical of a particular build or item getting nerfed in the future. The anticipation and excitement of getting that loot drop from a raid boss is diminished based on the constant looming threat of nerfs and enthusiasm for the core gameplay loop wanes. Overwatch works as a competitive game because the characters are "built" for you and there is no diversity or loot. Halo worked because a sniper rifle is a sniper rifle and a needler is a needler. Lack of variety is fundamental to creating a solid competitive game. It is also antithetical to loot based games like Diablo, Borderlands, and Nioh. Destiny was sold on its universe building, story, loot, and cooperative elements, yet it consistently undermines those principles to try to create a competitive game that cannot possibly exist in Destiny's universe.[/quote] Counterpoint: Trials in the only thing keeping Destiny alive.

Coming from a millionaire family, I just pay those to get me to light house and when Monday comes. Open my packages lol

Destiny is two years old. It should've died a long time ago. Also this is a little off topic but weren't ghally and maybe ice breaker nerfed because of PvE?

Then go play a different game. Trials has given people streaming and youtube careers because of the competitive edge. Go play overwatch then...

At first I agreed with you [b]to a point.[/b] Then you tried to say that Trials/PvP isn't the only thing keeping Destiny alive right now, which is horrendously untrue. Right now, less than 2% of the Community does the Raid each week, less than 1% does Archon's Forge, and roughly 1.5% even does Nightfalls. The RNG is not what keeps people coming back, it's the PvP. If there were no Crucible, Destiny would've died off a while back, the contract would've been cut by Activision and Destiny wouldn't be a thing anymore.

Muted

PvP is the only reason I continue to play Destiny. PvE is bland and repetitive.

Trials can be for everyone back in year 1 when everybody played it was alot easier for casual players to get to the lighthouse bc there was more of a player base to match up against but now looking at the numbers trials player base is diminishing each week in fact last week was the lowest it's ever been breaking the record from...the week before soo now it's filled with all sweats/streamers. Bungie needs to 1 make trials worth playing for EVERYONE. And 2 needs to figure out a way to stop the streamers and sweats from ruining it for everyone. I'm not saying make it super easy to get to the lighthouse I get it u have to really earn it what I'm saying is I shouldn't get knocked out by some person with a 2500 elo that's been flawless 15x that day every card.

Trials is a strange beast that wants to be competitive in a game that provides varying gear. What I mean is for a game mode that is based on skill Destiny really comes down to who has the better gear or better roll on said gear. It is competitive, but frankly the devs trying to balance the game in its entirety by balancing it around Crucible and Trials really is a problem because you cannot balance skill by destroying our gear. This really hurts the average or new Guardians. An example would be if Bungie were to make all sniper rifles have one shot per clip. The top 1% who turn around and insta-kill an opponent with a no-scope headshot won't be affected; the rest of the Destiny play base who can't no scope across the map will be the ones who suffer. On another note the reason weapons such as the VoG and CE weapons and exotics were popular because they always had the the same perks (besides elemental primaries) and you could make a loadout around those weapons. Instead we now have weapons that you need specific rolls on to even be viable on top of getting the weapon in the first place. Bungie wants to help make things more competitive, but they keep nerfing the only weapons that actually kill reliably. (Cough, Matador 64! Cough) Competition based around RNG and altering your game around the 2% of people able to compete because of luck, time played, and possibly skill is not the way to balance, let alone fix problems in a video game...

As a top 55% player, I speak on behalf of the elitists in the sense that this gamemode hasn't killed destiny; nay, it has drastically increased the lifespan. Edit: #SATIRE