Imho: ToO ain't the problem; it has its fair share of problems for sure, i.e., it's not a level playing field - too skewed toward paid carries and their offspring; it's toxic for Casuals - aka 'cannon fodder' for pub-stompers and k/d + ELO hags, and for the miserable few who delight in denying others' the chance to visit the Lighthouse. My lag + latency + slower gameplay/ reflexes (I'm nearly old) are reflected in my stats. It's never once stopped me from climbing the Light Level mountain; even in Y1 - when Vex and Suros reigned supreme. Finding m8s that could endure the worsening ToO environment, and with a shrinking Friends List, that was always a problem. Earlier, our team of bounty players could oft make it to 5 wins (armour) or on s good day - to 7 wins (weapon)...and we were pumped! Going flawless was never going to happen, because we were just playing for $h1t$ & giggles. We were under no illusions...and as long ad we could do the bounties - all well and good! However, now - we rarely make it past 1 win or if lucky, 3- maybe 4 wins. I like to play ALL aspects of this potentially fabulous game; and so do many others I encounter. We know Bungle keeps messing things up - 'twas ever thus. The biggest problem that this customer grapples with is the deplorable way Bungle treats its customers. The obvious untruths, deceits and other underhand tricks they've foisted upon this Community since Y1 is simply unfathomable! For any step forward - they took 3 steps back! Their biggest failing is the disdain they openly show for this Bungie.net Community. They sneer at us, they refuse to engage with us, they even mock us at every turn!? ...on other forums and media. If they but realised that some of their most ardent supporters peruse this site, and comment - albeit occasionally. And they wonder at the rivers of salt expressed herein! The latest patch, and the puerile 'reasoning' behind it - preached and praised by gormless creatures from Bungle's Cellar, and reaffirmed by The Detesticles, just does not wash! The Community may have reached a tipping point?! Anyone (at Bungle) with ears to hear, and eyes to see - knows this to be true. 🤖

Well said sir

I know it doesnt make sense to make general changes to suit the 1% but the 2-75% swear that they are just a stone throw away from elite status and demand the same changed as the 1%.

Well said.

[quote]This was supposed to be an epic space fantasy. Now, the performance of every weapon and subclass in the game is constantly held hostage by one game mode that has nothing to do with the core elements of the game's universe. I hated it when it launched, and it becomes clear with every patch that trials is always the priority, leaving all the PvE players out in the cold. Bungie, you are going to have to make some pretty substantial changes to how trials effects destiny if you expect any pre-orders for Destiny 2. Edit: for those who claim that trials is what keeps destiny going, I'm going to have to fundamentally disagree. Point #1: The thing that keeps destiny going is the thing that people hate the most about it: RNG. At its core, Destiny is a loot based shooter with an RPG foundation. The gameplay loop of loot based games centers on gaining power for your character to take on tougher challenges, to get better loot. The loot itself is the reward system that the game is based upon. Point # 2: Bungie employees have specifically stated that Trials is intended for only 1% if the player base. Making changes based on 1% of the player base that undermine the core gameplay loop underlying what destiny is poisons the entire game. The loot reward system loses its power when players are always skeptical of a particular build or item getting nerfed in the future. The anticipation and excitement of getting that loot drop from a raid boss is diminished based on the constant looming threat of nerfs and enthusiasm for the core gameplay loop wanes. Overwatch works as a competitive game because the characters are "built" for you and there is no diversity or loot. Halo worked because a sniper rifle is a sniper rifle and a needler is a needler. Lack of variety is fundamental to creating a solid competitive game. It is also antithetical to loot based games like Diablo, Borderlands, and Nioh. Destiny was sold on its universe building, story, loot, and cooperative elements, yet it consistently undermines those principles to try to create a competitive game that cannot possible exist is Destiny's universe.[/quote] Bump

Y E S. Well said.

Can we just keep pve and pvp separate in destiny 2? Hire a good team to head competitive play while we can still have bad a$$ supers, abilities, and guns in pve.

DeeJ or my homeboy Cozmo, why is it that weapon balancing affects both PvP and PvE? All the data supporting the sandbox team is solely based on PvP. I get it, the longevity of destiny relies heavily on PvP but I feel you guys are getting tunnel visioned. My recommendation like others said before me: Keep the nerfs/buffs separated between PvE and PvP modes. More work, but better payoff. Have you guys done any research on subclasses and weapons used on PvE? Has the sandbox team took PvE into any consideration? Your have some rarely used exotic primaries in your game. If data tells you that a particular exotic primary weapon is hardly being used the crucible, consider adding a burn to it so people use it in PvE. Variety is awesome! We've learn that from year 1 when everybody in your tower looked exactly the same..

Make no mistake, Bungie is killing Destiny. Trials is a great thing for the game because it offers a way to end game loot without raids and scratches that itch for competitive people. You don't like it, hey that's awesome! There's plenty else to do. The inherent problem lies not in the game type but Bungie's lack of rational thinking and inability to balance their own game. Balancing doesn't mean making everything equal, it means relatively everything is fair based on their strengths and weaknesses. If they were to realize that all guns should not be equal (they can't be in this game) and DESIGN BETTER MAPS diversity would follow.

There's away just separate the two make leader boards for both PvE and PvP same with weapons etc

Trials has bred a toxic community ever since its inception.

Dude, you have my FULL support. In my opinion, Trials of Osiris is pointless. Keywords "my" and "opinion".

I totally agree with what you say, however when bungie look at their stats all they see is trials players! Pve player base has reduced so much that the game is all about pvp We all know it's lack of content but I honestly think bungie have their head so far up their arse they don't realise this!

Agreed. This games buff an nerf system is to cater for the pvp side of the game which has -blam!-ed b the pve side. You don't see people coming on forums asking for vandals weapon to be nerfed. You will mostly find its the people who aren't very good at pvp an get killed by the same weapon 3 times an spit the dummy out crying nerf. An before all the little try hard butt hurts pvp players start there shit I mostly play pvp an play trials alot. Good day

Trials is part of the universe, too. It's called Trials of Osiris, not Trials of MLG what many believe. And even in the normal Crucible we follow rules set by Shaxx and his dudes (claiming the Crucible Areas a.k.a. Maps). So these rules will change, because Bungie is the ever creating god of this universe.

I feel ya, I could understand if they were nerfing the new gear only but why after 2 and a half years yr 1 weapons and subclasses are getting nerfs is baffling. Bungie have had an age to balance these things and have still not succeeded. Almost all the weapon archetypes have been in the game since day 1 yet the weapons are still not "balanced". If these issues only show their ugly heads during competitive play then I would think putting set classes into competitive modes is the only solution for inept developers.

Great shout OP. I've pretty much limited my Destiny time to drunken Friday nights now just because [i]if[/i] I venture into Trials I'll be either a) too drunk to care or b) won't remember a thing the morning after, basically Trials of Osiris is a 1 legged pug fugly prostitute and all the snowflake streamers are its pimps.

Trials is the best thing about destiny, it's an amazing idea. A tournament style game where you have to make it to 9 wins. There's nothing else like it. Given not everyone can make it to the LH but I think say if you accumulated 40 wins over a weekend without dismantling cards or whatever it would be a lot better for those people it's just a grind instead of the 9 win shortcut. And no emblem since it wasn't flawless. Also don't pick on the playlist a lot of us love, why not pick on the developers who can't fathom making PVE and PVP weapon damages different. It's an asshole move to pick on another part of the community for everyone in here who's doing such.

Now you know I feel.. went from a sci-fi shooter to CoD