[quote]Point #1: The thing that keeps destiny going is the thing that people hate the most about it: RNG. At its core, Destiny is a loot based shooter with an RPG foundation. The gameplay loop of loot based games centers on gaining power for your character to take on tougher challenges, to get better loot. The loot itself is the reward system that the game is based upon.[/quote] Rng is only half of this game and it does not keep this game going. What keeps this game going is its intrinsic gameplay, uniqueness, and it's high skill cap especially in PvP. No other FPS gets my adrenaline pumping like trials or skirmish / doubles because you have a high skill cap and the higher your skill cap the better you are. Numerous times do myself and friends just go into pvp with white starter weapons and come out on top against people rocking the meta. PvP is what keeps this game alive. PvE content can be done in the sleep of a trials regular. Yes it's fun but after getting the loot it's done so what's left? PvP. [Quote]Point # 2: Bungie employees have specifically stated that Trials is intended for only 1% if the player base. Making changes based on 1% of the player base that undermine the core gameplay loop underlying what destiny is poisons the entire game. The loot reward system loses its power when players are always skeptical of a particular build or item getting nerfed in the future. The anticipation and excitement of getting that loot drop from a raid boss is diminished based on the constant looming threat of nerfs and enthusiasm for the core gameplay loop wanes.[/quote] Alright look that 1% is probably those who go flawless and really care. A lot more than 1% of Destiny plays trials specoaly just for loot anf bounties. Also, what are you talking about as far as loot system poisoning the gameplay? Trying out new guns and balancing old guns drastically breathes fresh life into a diverse pvp meta and encourages players to hang onto rare rolls on weapons that would otherwise be 'sub-par' with others and gives them a reason to try out new things. If we didn't have sandbox updates and weapon balances this game would get staler than 12 month old saltine crackers you found at your grandmother's house. This isn't WoW where you have to grind and continuously change looks and builds and stats. In a way it is but it takes you 5 seconds to whip out your inventory and click a new talent or class. Also all of your weapons are transferable between characters so whenever you want to your gear can go to to new class and bam it's like a whole new game. Yeah it sucks that Bungie can't balance an already balanced scale when it comes to classes but in a way having some classes better than others gives you a challenge and really shows a skill level when using underpowered things. I personally enjoy that challenge though it's not for everybody and I don't speak for everybody. [Quote]Overwatch works as a competitive game because the characters are "built" for you and there is no diversity or loot. Halo worked because a sniper rifle is a sniper rifle and a needler is a needler. Lack of variety is fundamental to creating a solid competitive game. It is also antithetical to loot based games like Diablo, Borderlands, and Nioh. Destiny was sold on its universe building, story, loot, and cooperative elements, yet it consistently undermines those principles to try to create a competitive game that cannot possibly exist in Destiny's universe.[/quote] I don't understand this post at all. Lack of variety doesn't create anything. Borderlands is so similar to Destiny PvE wise where you customize and build a character to fit you. Diablo is the same way except it has regular balances and flexes the same exact way destiny does. Halo worked because you had to work for your weapons every single game but personal skill mattered. Gun skill was and is is a big thing and trapping your opponent's is a huge part of the game. Overwatch is a terrible comparison to Destiny because you only have, at best, 4 buttons to push and limited skills to choose from. Even halo had weapons on the map to change your play style to fit your needs and take advantage of. Overwatch, as fun as it is, takes very little personal skill and focuses entirely on the ability to work as a team and in that scenario forces you to work in specific roles and in order to do that it needs to have less variety. You don't see 1 person vids of overwatch where people clutch a trials or skirmish game by themselves using their own personal load outs because they are a more skilled player. Same with halo although if argue that sometimes halo is more skillful because you have to be aware of map timers, locations, and still maintain ammo and gun skill. At least til halo 5 where timers were provided for you and halo 4 had callable ordinance. Destiny was sold for its uniqueness and it's mass multi-player like gameplay. The open world space portion was very similar in no way is it an 'exploration' based game. If you want that go play no-mans land. It follows those principles to the scale and constantly evolves the meta ethics new guns, class and weapon balances, and new raid able content from time to time. It is a console, fps, mini MMO for lack of better words. Been playing since the Alpha and I had to take a break from the last godawful matador meta. Thank god for balance updates. I'm back and this is just insane, I can't believe I wasted my time to post. See you in the crucible.

Consistency between PvE and PvP is not worth making one group mad to make the other happy. I can't even conceive why it'd be hard to separate the two unless their code is that fùcked up.

I've only played trials to be carried. I don't enjoy it's sweaty player vs player competitiveness... it's not why I purchased destiny, similar to what you described. Open world first person shooter with some space magic. The cross board nerfs from crucibaby years has really added a guaranteed fun drain to anything you can find left to have fun doing in PVE. Being overpowered is fun. I loved year one strikes with gally and ruin wings. I'll pre order D2 regardless. For it to have the replay value it has had in the past though, it will need a clear and defined separation in PvP nerf parties staying crucible only. I haven't played in a few weeks because the nerfs have made thing boring. The shotgun nerfs in PVE, really? The most fun I ever had was when they finally made shotguns beast mode against enemies. Then they took that away? Come on guys, we liked shotguns actually working. That's not to say crucible couldn't use its tweaks... but stop messing with your core.

Destiny fell apart in development - common knowledge for a lot of players by now. Most of what we got was whatever they could stitch together in order to meet 'Activision's remodel' before the deadline. The game released with a very limited PVE experience, universe, and story; which was the bread and butter selling point of the coming franchise. PVP became a major focus of Destiny in order to fill the 'void' - Trials being the 'Raid' for the elite. Luckily, the gameplay was solid and fun enough for many players to keep coming back - not to mention some living off the fumes of what Destiny could have, and might someday be. Also, despite lacking in-game depth with story, the Raids were pretty fun for the most part. All that said, the game has indeed reached a point where the glamour of mindless PVP fun is wearing off for many. This becomes more apparent when so many 'updates' are PVP centered, and the changes made are constantly having negative effects on the PVE experience, making Guardians and their loot weaker. I agree that the game went the wrong direction, becoming mostly PVP focused, but it's obvious this is what they were going for with this particular build of Destiny. We might get a PVE epilogue event or two that will lead us into the next game later this year, but I don't see too much else. How they handle Destiny 2 is going to be damn interesting to say the least.

I can only imagine what Destiny 2 will become... Crucible 2.0 with promised bi-weekly nerfs, more microtransactions to keep Activi$ion happy, and even less story to be had. Personally I refuse to provide Bungovi$ion any more of my money... I'm tired of having my time and effort wasted to cater to the 14 yr old tryhard snowflakes that have ruined this game for everyone else. I enjoyed using the Vex... I enjoyed using Fatebringer... elemental primaries were so much fun... the classes have been homogenized and have had so much of their uniqueness and powers reduced... all in the name of PVP. RIP Destiny: The Game That Could Have Been. Become Ordinary.

Its not killing destiny genius prob most kf destiny population is alive because of it

Trials can be really intense and fun, and the gear is super slick. But the level of toxicity it's brought is honestly not worth it.

Would you consider Darksouls PvP to be balanced?