[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] imnotjakeybot I'll admit it Hylebos, I didn't read it--I skimmed it--but I've battled you on this before. I disagree and this is why: The point of Armor Lock is to be invincible and nothing can change your status while it is active. But nothing. From the Carnage Carnivale trailer--for my money it's the most definitive, explicit, and comprehensive statement the company has ever made about the game they created--Tung and Carney state some beautiful things concerning Halo: Reach: (1:05) Tung: "We made a bunch of changes in Reach that are pretty significant." (2:20) Tung: "I'm super excited to see what people do with armor abilities, it totally changes the game." (2:30) Carney: "What do you want to be? You want to be invisible? You want to fly? You want to turn to stone?" Armor Abilities were always meant to become fully integrated into the core of Reach's gameplay. That is why they are available off spawn and multi-use. Part of the perks of choosing Armor Lock is that it empowers you to become invincible--to turn to stone--and not even a Scorpion shell can change that. Yes this changes the game that you fell in love with in the 7th grade. But that is what Reach is--a different kind of Halo game with significant changes. If you want to put a big backpack on the dude, whatever. That's your prerogative to argue, but Armor Lock makes the user [i]invincible[/i] while it is active. That is what it does, that is what it was designed to do, that is what it is supposed to do, that it what it should do, and that is what it should always do. [/quote] Carnage Carnivale. If memory serves me correctly, that would be the Vidoc where Luke Smith said "[i]Two men enter. The better man leaves. The lesser man is respawning. And that's Halo.[/i]" am I right? Yeah... That's not happening with Plasma Grenade Shedding. I always laugh a bit whenever someone goes off and treats the "core definition" of Armor Lock like some absolute law that cannot be changed and cannot be challenged. It's slightly hypocritical I think, because those people choose to ignore the core definition of Plasma Grenades which has existed for the past ten years of Halo. You yourself said earlier in the thread: [quote]The point of Armor Lock is to be invincible and nothing can change your status while it is active. But nothing.[/quote]Well, the point of Plasma Grenades is to stick to their targets and never let go until detonation and nothing could save you from their deadly grip. But nothing. If the core definition of Plasma Grenades was so easily and thoughtlessly changed for the sake of progress, then what makes you think that Armor Lock is exempt from the exact same treatment? I understand that Bungie was trying something new with Reach, and I understand that they had the best intentions for this game, but that doesn't change the fact that they've made a mistake. Plasma Grenade Shedding is an overpowered counter against Plasma Grenades, and it isn't neccessary to balance out either the Plasma Grenade or Armor Lock, as I outlined extensively in my original post. I don't care how exactly you choose to define Armor Lock. I don't care that Reach is a different game than the previous Halos. I don't care that Plasma Grenade Shedding was an intentional feature. Plasma Grenade Shedding is still a terrible mechanic! Mistakes like Plasma Grenade Shedding should be corrected and should be learned from, they shouldn't be ignored and defended! There is no reason why Plasma Grenades shouldn't be the exception to the definition of Armor Lock. It doesn't mean that the entire abillity's identity is compromised, it just means that you actually have to react before the Plasma Grenade hits you if you want to live. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WyvernRider I honestly agree that sticky shedding is ridiculous at times. What I think would be nice is that if you armor lock within half of a second of being stuck only then can it be shed. Heck maybe even take it to a shorter time than that. I would like to still deflect stickies but being able to use armor lock just as you would explode because you reacted fast enough for the long timer is not balanced. If this was about rewarding quick reflexes then you should only be able to shed less then a second after you get stuck. Anything after is unfair in my opinion.[/quote] Or we could kill Plasma Grenade Shedding entirely. You'd still be able to deflect stickies, you'd just need to Armor Lock before they hit you, which rewards quick reflexes. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgingWhite Fire [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ryus Shoryuken [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ArtooFeva Sir, while I like you as a member that is simply too long a read. I'm just going to go with saying that I personally do not see shedding as a big problem because without it armor lock would do nothing at all except prevent you from moving at all.[/quote] It would still protect you from all other forms of damage.[/quote] I think what he is getting at is that if a sticky kills you in AL, how does it make sense for a tank shell or a frag grenade not kill you so that would end up changed and AL would be a let the enemy kill me because AL does nothing button[/quote] Except that Armor Lock would still protect from external attacks. All the removal of Plasma Grenade Shedding would do is make it so that if you are stuck and Armor Lock you die because the Armor Lock would form around the Grenade, encapsulating the explosion. As the Artoo said though, he didn't read my post, so it's no suprise that he would think that it's what I meant. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Shadowthehh2 well for your point blank sticks i have a solution the 2 grenade method:throw one grenade,let the shed it and use up all there armor lock,stick him again,this isnt gunna be any shedding if theres no armor lock the melee method:melee them and repeat the above method of sticking when al is used up[/quote] Or I could just stick an Armor Locker and he dies because he failed to Armor Lock before I stuck him. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dragon v 20 perhaps there should be a risk involved in Aling when you get stuck, you WILL die but perhaps due to the ALing and how it contains the explosion perhaps it might increase the size of the explosion, or just completely vaporize the ALer :D[/quote] I'd be more than happy to allow them to contain the explosion with Armor Lock, the explosion itself doesn't need to be bigger however. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mifkin BTW OP nice thesis, no point going into it but not shedding a grenade will still have the same effect. A rejection medal. [/quote] Unless they make it so that a stuck Plasma Grenade is the only think that can kill an Armor Locker. You know, as I outlined in my Original Post... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 This thread made me realise something. You're right.[/quote] I'm so glad that you see it my wa- [quote]Why should armour lock be the only option to escape the overpowered plasma nades? I say make it so simply hitting b would take the plasma nade off and give you the ability to throw it some other direction, similar to how you throw uncooked grenades away from you in CoD. It would stop armour lockers having a unfair advantage seeing as everyone can shed grenades, it would stop point blank sticks and it would add a whole new level of skill/complexity to plasma nade sticking. Of course you wouldn't be able to armour lock while stuck and you'd have to instantly shed the grenade to not take any damage since the fuse is already lit to make it fair for all parties and you know you can't shed two grenades at once so that wouldn't implicate the plasma launcher too much, just gotta get the damage/time since stick ratio right.[/quote] ... -_- How would it add a whole new level of skill or complexity to Plasma Grenade Sticking? As outlined in the original post, there's nothing I can do to ensure that my Plasma Grenade kills my target so long as Plasma Grenade Shedding is around, making it so that everyone can shed Plasma Grenades only makes the problem worse for Plasma Grenade fans. Why can't Plasma Grenades be nerfed directly if they are overpowered, as I suggested in the original post? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tha1truestoner While I actually like there finally being a counter to stickies(and all instant kill/unstoppable weapons), you make one extremely good point: there is no longer any way to tell if your intended target has AL. I think visibility is a huge part of this game. If you see someone with a shotgun/sword, you don't rush him head on. If you see someone with a jetpack you are prepared to aim upward when he tries to fly away. This should also apply to AL and stickies. My solution: bring back the giant back pack and leave plasma shedding in. [/quote] Hold up there. You said that Armor Lock is an acceptable counter to instant kill / unstoppable weapons right? And the Rocket Launcher is one of those instant kill / unstoppable weapons right? So why is it Armor Lock is an acceptable counter to the Rocket Launcher but Armor Lock without Plasma Grenade Shedding is not an acceptable counter for Plasma Grenades? Both projectiles need to be blocked with Armor Lock before they hit you if you want to live, and it's not like Plasma Grenades are particularly faster or more deadly than Rockets. Heck, Plasma Grenades even give the victim an extra second to fight back before he dies! Why exactly does Armor Lock need to have Plasma Grenade Shedding to be balanced? ...I am happy though that you agree about the visibillity. [quote][/quote] 242 characters left! That's all for now folks.