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Edited by chickengoujohn93:
2/12/2017 9:13:22 PM
89
Exactly how did the Shotgun meta of Year Three blow out of proportion? Discussion (no hate or complaining)
The Year Two to Year Three transition (Update 2.4.0) left shotguns virtually untouched, except a few tweaks to specific weapons such as Universal Remote. [u][b]Link:[/b][/u] https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/45172/7_Destiny-Update-090816
This basically meant that the Shotguns of Year Three are basically the Shotguns of Year Two.
Casting our minds back to Year Two, Shotguns were at a peripheral place in the meta, in place of the hallowed Sniper Rifle. I never really seen that many complaints about Shotguns in Year Two hence the reasoning for their possible exclusion from the nerfhammer in Update 2.4.0.
As Snipers were the dominant Special weapon of Year Two, they got a little bit of treatment as a result in Update 2.4.0.
- 31 Impact Snipers such as LDR, 1000-Yard, Longbow got a damage reduction by 7% meaning they could no longer reliably super-snipe high armored players in Super.
- LDR/Longbow had a bug in which its default Aim Assist was extremely high for such an archetype and it was scaled back to normal levels to that of 1000-Yard which was another major player in that particular meta.
- Increased Flinch whilst scoped
- Increase ADS zoom by 0.5x
To add to that, the damage nerf of 31 Impact Snipers was "rectified" with the reappearance of highest Impact Snipers in Legendary form... including Devil's Dawn, Ex Machina and Event Horizon, meaning that super-sniping high armor Guardians was still a possibility even without wasting the Exotic Slot on Zen Meteor and Black Spindle or losing Light Level if one wanted to use Black Hammer and Efrideet's Spear.
As for flinch increases, was it enough to justify Sniper Rifles completely falling from the face of the Crucible?
1v2 situations, regardless of opponents weaponry or meta you were most likely dead man.
1v1 situations would be rectified by not allowing yourself to get shot first and backing off before its too late (getting killed).
The response to the Sniper nerf in 2.4.0 may (keyword) have been a huge, literally huge knee jerk reaction by the playerbase, to an extent that it was like the vast majority literally forgot how to Snipe overnight.
Discuss...
English
#Destiny
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I still don't really understand why people considered snipers "meta" at one point. During that time I was using an AR at just outside the effective range and stomping them pretty hard. Either everyone I went up against with a sniper then sucked incredibly hard or snipers were thought to be op when they really were what they always were
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Well for atleast some of year 2 their were still powerful primaries. Abilities such as shoulder charge, flame shield, firebolt etc. we're very powerful and we're stand alone. When the last of the good primaries were nerfed and some subclass abilities too, shotguns and shotgun benefiting perks (such as jug and thunder strike) rised to the top. In year 2 their was a little more diversity in terms of primaries. hand cannons, pulses, autos and scouts all had a weapon or two that were top tier. And when the April update hit the special weapons were all a little more balanced, with camping with snipers still being the best option. But back then I felt I could use any thing and still do good. When year 3 started it was a highly concentrated shotgun meta, with matador at the top. Then once we found clever dragon it became even more concentrated. The best loadout being 2 guns, clever dragon and matador, very similar to the very concentrated meta of thorn and felwinters. I feel that when the meta is a more broad, the community reacts a little better. Like the meta back then was snipers, no specific one, just snipers. But when the meta is so concentrated down that it's literally 2 weapons, is when the community starts getting really salty.
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I'm personally seeing it like this... Shotguns made blade dancers lose a lot of the time mid super. Remove shotguns and the only real counter is team firing. But since blade dancers are so fast while swiping around, I guess that gave them a reason to nerf hungering blade. I'm not saying I agree with it but it does make sense to me :/
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God roll matador is easily accessible. Primaries were nerfed harder than shotguns were due to the much higher ttk on primaries. The player base has practiced a lot and got a lot better at movement abilities. Juggernaut shield, amplitude melee promote shotguns.
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3 years later and nerfs after nerfs after nerfs Bungie still don't get it. Back in year 1 primaries were great and competitive. What did Bungie do? Nerf the hell out of pretty much every primary gun types, first auto rifles, then handcannons, then pulse rifles. Then what happened? Oh look, people are now relying too much on secondary weapons they said. Duh! Let's nerf Shotguns, too much range, let's nerf special ammo too. Now what in Y2? Oh look, people are relying too much on Snipers. How come?! Let's nerf them, duh. (Also let's nerf Fusion Rifles for the billionth time for no reason) Y3 oh look, now that we nerfed Snipers people are relying too much on shotguns again, damn! Let's nerf them. Let's also nerf stuff like Landfall and Hungering Blade for no apparent reason while we're at it. You get the point? People will always gravitate towards the next best thing and Bungie will always nerf it stupidly and slowly but surely sucking the fun out of this game by making our guns and abilities crap.
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Coz flinch lol
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They made it too easy to get matador 64 with god roll
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Bung gee gradually took away long distance encounters on maps and nerfed primaries into the ground so no counters to shotties. Simple as that.
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People finally got around to mastering movement. Shotguns only needed minor tweaking. It was always movement that was the problem.
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I actually laugh about this, because people just follow other people into the meta cycle instead of actually sticking to their guns (in this case literately). I can't tell you how many "sniper mains" dropped snipers the moment they were nerfed.
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even if I was banned from using special weapons entirely somehow, I would rather face an ass load of shotgun users than snipers. getting one (or two) shot from across the map sucks worse than being one shot/2 shot from close range. at least then I feel more like I'm fighting back.
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What can you do when every weapon that gets used is just bound to become weaker over time?
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I believe they're chasing something that can't be done. Trying to make every player happy with every weapon they could possibly go into battle with is not realistic. With the diversity of weapons and armor it would be literally impossible to make everyone happy with the combat/feeling of superiority. There are too many variables even down to someone's particular controller or lighting or TV screen. That's not objective! It's a hugely subjective game even from match to match. So it makes no sense to hate on them for trying.
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1 ReplyEdited by Spaceman: 2/13/2017 11:10:22 PMWhen you nerf snipers and then hand out a god roll Conspiracy Theory to everyone with a hole in their ass.... that's when it got blown out of proportion.
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1 ReplyCuz Bungie kept on nwrfing fusions for no reason
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Personally, I find the shotguns just extremely annoying. With RNG giving out god rolls left and right, it was hard to come across someone who would want to use a sniper with slightly below average stats, compared to the Matador, which in reality, has no perks that can really be considered bad. It legitimately took me until two days ago to finally get the max impact/range Matador I was looking for. I've been grinding this whole time looking for one, and now the new patch is going to somewhat negate all of the time I spent grinding. Guess I'm looking for a sidearm now. I fee the main reason shotguns came into play is that snipers became more difficult to use (they are still usable though), and that the matador was reintroduced. You ever stop and think about it? Snipers brought back were LDR and Longbow, in April. There, you had the Two to the Morgue (good with the right roll), and the Party Crasher dropping. Let's look at now. Snipers had the 20/20 AMR7 reintroduced. A terrible archetype compared to others, and not necessarily always competitive (can't res-snipe). Shotgunners got the Matador, one of the strongest, of not the strongest, shotguns in Destiny history. It also has a limited perk pool, with almost every perk affecting the gun positively. They also got the Last Ditch from Dead Orbit. Not as good, but they still got it. Party Crasher was reintroduced into the pool in Crucible. 3 high-impact shotguns that can roll with max range and impact stats are all currently available in the game, and really have no drawbacks. Snipers are harder to use, but not impossible. To me, personally, shotgunning just seems easier now than ever, especially since the Matador made a comeback for Trials with modern day light levels. That's my opinion, and I would love to discuss further.
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7 RepliesYr 1 wasn't much of an issue for shotguns. By the time we were well into HoW we had an abundance of damn good shotguns and reforging. Yr 2 is when the shiit started hitting the fan. Some "damn good shotguns" but with reforging no longer available we were left with RNG to give us a good to god roll. It took me 11 months of Yr 2 to finally get a good CT-D (Accurized ballistics, Range finder, rifled barrel and performance bonus). Funny how Aggressive Ballistics makes such a huge difference. I never even got a good roll PC+1 with 95% of my play time in PvP. Yr 3, same crap, the good to god roll is in RNG's hands. It's just my opinion, but I strongly believe that if reforging would have continued in TTK and RoI that the amount of complaint topics would have been a lot lower.
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Supremacy encourages shotguns
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same reason MIDA was in the meta, it was virtually untouched, then when other things were nerfed, it was powerful
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4 RepliesLets put it this way: The moon is always there, its just not visible until the sun goes down. Shotguns were always there, but because of nerfs to every gun, making every gun dormant, shotguns are shining.
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I've never had any issues with Destiny when it comes to "balance". Shit players that can't adapt complain. They'll never be happy because they suck. They'll just complain about whatever it is they can't use or counter. I blame their parents.
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-reintroduction of the matador -nerfs to snipers
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Shotguns are easy, and mobility in destiny is strong. When they killed off the 'snipers' by increasing flinch to Sniper Rifles, these 'snipers' went to the next easiest method of killing. Ironically I stopped using shotguns at the time Snipers were nerfed because it was made painfully easier to snipe when no one else could just rush and quickscope. I had the legendary LDR god roll for most of year two, and decided to break it out. Yeah, the nerfs hit hard, but I already played situationally. The flinch only helped me decide to back off quicker. Honestly, Shotguns aren't hard to counter as of right now. I've been anxious about this new patch because of the nerfs. It may have been a touch steep...
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Quick scooping and minimal flinch made snipers get overly nerf'd. Shot guns got buffed for the first time since the Fel Winter nerf. Then the introduction of the Twilight Garrison gave way to skating along with the Shade Step evasion of the Night Stalker. Hand cannons got bloom (ghost bullets) and Last Word got nerf'd so close quarters were unable to be defended, but you could evade. Then the evade nerf came. It was a perfect mix.
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2 RepliesSecondaries have been out of control since I started playing this game. As you see now most are trying to find a loop hole to continue getting their 1 hit kills. Bungie plays into the crap by bringing nlb universal icebreaker forward. Those guns are designed to break the game. IDIOTS
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5 RepliesEdited by grrrund: 2/13/2017 2:00:55 PMGrrrund opinion: Shotguns kill lots of people that don't respect the inner pie slices of their radars as much as they respect "known" sniper lanes. Know what I'm saying? If everyone learned how to "rotate" on the map when they notice those inner pie slices light up, I think the issue would disappear.... GrenaderJake does a few 1v3's a week, and much can be learned from his commentary etc. Edit: using NLB/side arm will force anyone to learn the value of rotation :D
