Because----once the Honeymoon period (what you're in right now) is over----the reality of the situation sets in. Long story short. Crota's End and VoG are "strategic" raids. Kingsfall was a "penal" raid. In golf course design, a "strategic" course is one that confronts you with a number of "risk-reward" choices. If you take the risk and succeed....you can score really well. If you take the risk and fail....you can score really poorly. Avoid the risk, and you can make a nice safe score....but will find it hard to keep up with players who are more tactical in what risks they choose to face, and what they ones they shy away from. Augusta National Golf Club----Home of the Masters Tournament---and its "Amen Corner" is the most famous stretch of "strategic holes" in pro golf. Penal courses on the other hand, don't offer you choices...they confront you with tests. Hit the ball here...or face the consequences and score poorly. So instead of any round being an interesting series of risks and rewards....its a plodding exercise of "Can you hit your ball where you're **supposed** to." Because if you don't....there's little chance for recovery. TLDR: The mechanics in VoG and CE were "flexible" enough that if someone died, you could change strategies and continue the fight. In some VoG runs, we beat The Templar with as many as two or three people dead. So that potential to recover from mistakes makes those raids more fun for most people....and also less time-consuming. But with Kingsfall, the mechanics were so rigid and so punishing that ONE mistake was enough to cause you to fail. One person who wasn't doing enough damage. One person (in hard mode) who dies...or (Golgoroth) doesn' t realize that he has the corrupted light...and blows up his entire fireteam. To make the situation even MORE obnoxious. The boss "enrages" in VoG and CE were "soft" enrages. IOW, the fight got a hell of a lot tougher...but it was still possible to continue the fight...and "clutch" the win. In Kingsfall all of the enrages I ever saw were "hard" enrages. IOW. Boss enrages------>> Instant team wipe. Miss one of the stairs in the Oryx fight? Wipe and start over. Cant' get the Sisters in three cycles..wipe and start again. It eventually gets tiresome having to wipe all the time because of tiny mistakes that put the fight out of reach. I died more times to wipes doing Kingsfall, than ever died in actual combat. That's how silly it eventually gets.

I like King's Fall more than the other raids because it just feels epic. The build up of Oryx in the campaign and getting to watch his body float off to Saturn after my first completion is a moment I will never forget. I like Wrath of the Machine because of how fast a good team can get through it. I like the gear and the perks on the weapons. I don't like how Aksis is never mentioned by name before you face him in the raid. I've never been in a team that completes Crota's End legitimately so I do not have the full experience of the raid, however I will say the music that plays when the Swordbearer charges Crota is pretty cool. Vault of Glass. Pretty much the same opinion as Wrath of the Machine. I hope in Destiny 2 they have a lead into every raid. Even if it's just a small cutscene or something, I want to know why it is so important that I kill whoever is in the raid.

I dislike it because it's impossible to do as a solo player without a mic. It really sucks...

I havent played in a while. Whats the max light you get out of the hard mode? Still 320?

I had wanted a cabal or fallen raid, not more hive bullshit

The most fun raid to do with friends. The least fun raid to do with randoms. [spoiler][b][u][i]COUNTER--blam!-ING-CLOCKWISE[/i][/u][/b][/spoiler]

I don't hate any if the raids honestly. They're all easy if you have a good team. Sometimes I wish I had a 6 man team of me to flawlessly do the raids sometimes and fast without -blam!- ups but any who. Kf was by far one of the truer raids for the elitists out there. I've been around since the days when the first raid was around, and Tbh I Loved VoG the most but in my opinion each raid had their own unique set of perks that made them great on their own. VoG was a well balanced raid with decent complexity and rewarding outcomes and enjoyable. CrE was short and sweet. It required perfection and no dying when it hit hm and it presented a challenge until we went over the ll for it eventually. KF required the kind of teamwork CrE needed when hm for it used to be hard when defeating crota. It made the raid challenging and more complex and longer for me. A satisfying scenic ship to see and an epic feeling of a truly massive raid. The teamwork and communication to defeat oryx and golgoroth and warpriest would test everyone on the team instead of just one like the swordbearer in CrE or relic holder on VoG. Massive end boss was awesome IMO WoTM was...it was great but it was short lived. The rewards were earned too fast. Giving the raid a smaller life span to me. Kind of like KF giving you almost everything it had to offer in two runs. I did enjoy the amount of little tricks and twists bungo did with it when they made challenge mode on aksis it was probably the most tense part of the raid aside from the siege machine/death zamboni, I loved their ornament system and overall enjoyed it but to me it gave rewards too fast Overall I love all the raids but I just feel like what made the old ones better aside from the fact that they were the only other way to get an almost guaranteed exotic is that they didn't give you their entire inventory in two runs I really wish also that the raid specific exotics would stay RNG based in the end boss like atheon and his vex and crota with the crux even tho in all honesty necro was a quest technically, it took me weeks of farming to get that stupid husk. But I prefer if the final boss would've dropped the weapon like vog. Like oryx dropping touch and aksis dropping outbreak prime. Just me tho

Its an amazing raid, but as for the armor... anything hive is ugly to me.