[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] We Told You So Player's strafe. Use cover. Jump. Crouch.[/quote] All of those things are constants,just like time.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] We Told You So The more insults I throw into this post, the more credible my opinion is.[/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] change4a5_ [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] change4a5_ THE BULLETS WHEN YOU DON'T WAIT FOR THE BLOOM TO DIE DOWN.[/quote] And who controls if you wait or not?[/quote] You are -blam!- stupid. I wouldn't be surprised if you ate too much lead paint as a child. You ignore everything people have already said that disproves your point because you have no -blam!- clue about anything[/quote] So you cannot refute my point?[/quote] No retard, you have no point. As Lies already said, someone can spam the trigger, get lucky, and beat someone who has perfect aim and perfect timing. That, my mentally challenged friend, is LUCK.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] thashiznit314 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lies Someone can spam the trigger, get lucky, and kill someone who was timing their shots and aiming perfectly, all because of luck. That is a flaw.[/quote] Like [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh9mObwc4bM&feature=related]this[/url] lol he even got shot in the face[/quote] This has already been refuted. This is close range and the guy on the bridge missed several shots.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lies Someone can spam the trigger, get lucky, and kill someone who was timing their shots and aiming perfectly, all because of luck. That is a flaw.[/quote] Not at all. Even if the player had no idea what he was doing it's obvious he inadvertantly made a good decision while you did not and he won the battle.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] We Told You So ...because timing something that moves at the same speed all the time is easy. It's a constant rate, no adapting required. To hit someone's head, however, you have to predict where they are going to be and hit a small moving target, obviously much harder.[/quote] The speed a player is capped at and the maps parameters is a always a constant.[/quote] HURR DURR MY NAMES MURDER AND I'M GOING TO COMPARE SOMETHING MOVING AT A FIXED RATE TO SOMETHING THAT IS NOT FIXED AT ALL AND THINK I ACTUALLY PROVED SOMETHING Player's strafe. Use cover. Jump. Crouch. All of these things and more make it difficult to track a target. Guess what I could do blindfolded? Time the bloom because it is the same thing every goddamn time. All I have to learn is how fast to shoot the DMR so that the bloom goes away, close my eyes, and press RT on that interval. TL,DR You're an idiot

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] change4a5_ [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] change4a5_ THE BULLETS WHEN YOU DON'T WAIT FOR THE BLOOM TO DIE DOWN.[/quote] And who controls if you wait or not?[/quote] You are -blam!- stupid. I wouldn't be surprised if you ate too much lead paint as a child. You ignore everything people have already said that disproves your point because you have no -blam!- clue about anything[/quote] So you cannot refute my point?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lies Someone can spam the trigger, get lucky, and kill someone who was timing their shots and aiming perfectly, all because of luck. That is a flaw.[/quote] Like [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh9mObwc4bM&feature=related]this[/url] lol he even got shot in the face

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lies [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lies [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS Strafing adds depth without introducing randomness. The same cannot be said for bloom.[/quote] How so? Strafing is meant to be random so you're not shot correct? and it's something the player controls ... Seems the same to me.[/quote] Strafing is not random at all, player movements are controlled by the player 100%. The same cannot be said by people shooting the DMR while it has bloom, the projectiles are controlled by an RNG.[/quote] And bloom is controlled by the player 100% ... you just wait.[/quote] But what if you don't wait for the bloom? Then your shots are controlled partly by an RNG. Here's the scenario that people don't like. Player A and Player B start shooting each other with DMRs at the same time. Player A decides to time his shots to wait for the bloom to die down. Player B, on the other hand, decides to spam the trigger as fast as he can. Neither of them misplace their reticule, both of them are aiming perfectly. However, B manages to kill A because even though he didn't take the bloom into account, his shots still hit because he got lucky. Now you have player A losing the 1v1 even though he did everything right. He timed his shots, didn't miss, and still lost because his opponent opted for a riskier strategy that required luck to prevail. Someone shouldn't be able to do everything correctly and still lose.[/quote] Apparently this post was missed because some people still refuse to acknowledge how bloom can lead to random outcomes.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] We Told You So ...because timing something that moves at the same speed all the time is easy. It's a constant rate, no adapting required. To hit someone's head, however, you have to predict where they are going to be and hit a small moving target, obviously much harder.[/quote] The speed a player is capped at and the maps parameters is a always a constant.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] thashiznit314 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] thashiznit314 The skill involved with aim is nearly limitless and can be improved upon with practice.[/quote] The same could be said about bloom. Do you really think getting timing so perfect you do it to a exact millisecond is more limited than getting five shots on someone's head?[/quote] No, it will never equate to the skill of aiming. The skill involved in controlling bloom is finite. Eventually, there's going to be one tactic that works best for each range. No amount of practice is going to make one firing rate better than another.[/quote] Every player makes errors. They will either fire too fast or too slow at times. No one is perfect. You act as if once you master it you will be able to do it without any error 100% of the time. If two players were both perfect at aiming, they would keep the crosshair deadcentered on the opponent's head all the time and there would be no way for one person's aiming to be better than the other. However, that only works in a HYPOTHETICAL situation. In real life, players do not completely master skills without any error. There will ALWAYS be error. [Edited on 06.03.2010 12:33 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lies [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS The player 100% controls his strafe, while again the same cannot be said for bloom. You control what level of randomness your gun will function at.[/quote] Does the player not control the level of randomness within his strafe to make it more difficult for the enemy to hit him?[/quote] Its not random, at all. He's controlling it, 100%. The calculations that go into where your bullet goes is simply not controlled by the user.[/quote] And the ROF and Bloom is being controlled by the player. My point is a player can choose to be accurate/inaccurate the exact same way a player can choose to run in a strait line or jump randomly left and right.[/quote] No one is saying you cannot control the bloom, obviously you do. What you don't control, is the projectiles if you don't wait for the bloom to go away. Someone can spam the trigger, get lucky, and kill someone who was timing their shots and aiming perfectly, all because of luck. That is a flaw.[/quote] Ya, bloom should be much more pronounced when it's in effect but it should come into effect less. No more probability battles. Those are less than fun.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] change4a5_ THE BULLETS WHEN YOU DON'T WAIT FOR THE BLOOM TO DIE DOWN.[/quote] And who controls if you wait or not?[/quote] You are -blam!- stupid. I wouldn't be surprised if you ate too much lead paint as a child. You ignore everything people have already said that disproves your point because you have no -blam!- clue about anything

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS The player 100% controls his strafe, while again the same cannot be said for bloom. You control what level of randomness your gun will function at.[/quote] Does the player not control the level of randomness within his strafe to make it more difficult for the enemy to hit him?[/quote] Its not random, at all. He's controlling it, 100%. The calculations that go into where your bullet goes is simply not controlled by the user.[/quote] And the ROF and Bloom is being controlled by the player. My point is a player can choose to be accurate/inaccurate the exact same way a player can choose to run in a strait line or jump randomly left and right.[/quote] No one is saying you cannot control the bloom, obviously you do. What you don't control, is the projectiles if you don't wait for the bloom to go away. Someone can spam the trigger, get lucky, and kill someone who was timing their shots and aiming perfectly, all because of luck. That is a flaw.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS The player 100% controls his strafe, while again the same cannot be said for bloom. You control what level of randomness your gun will function at.[/quote] Does the player not control the level of randomness within his strafe to make it more difficult for the enemy to hit him?[/quote] Its not random, at all. He's controlling it, 100%. The calculations that go into where your bullet goes is simply not controlled by the user.[/quote] And the ROF and Bloom is being controlled by the player. My point is a player can choose to be accurate/inaccurate the exact same way a player can choose to run in a strait line or jump randomly left and right.[/quote] So? You're controlling what size reticule is used not where your bullet goes within said reticule. If two people are using various stages of bloomed reticule the outcome is essentially random.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] change4a5_ THE BULLETS WHEN YOU DON'T WAIT FOR THE BLOOM TO DIE DOWN.[/quote] And who controls if you wait or not?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] thashiznit314 The skill involved with aim is nearly limitless and can be improved upon with practice.[/quote] The same could be said about bloom. Do you really think getting timing so perfect you do it to a exact millisecond is more limited than getting five shots on someone's head?[/quote] No, it will never equate to the skill of aiming. The skill involved in controlling bloom is finite. Eventually, there's going to be one tactic that works best for each range. No amount of practice is going to make one firing rate better than another.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] We Told You So it's easy as -blam!-.[/quote] How is aiming at someone's head more difficult?[/quote] Most people I play in MM seem like they'd miss the ocean from the beach.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] We Told You So it's easy as -blam!-.[/quote] How is aiming at someone's head more difficult?[/quote] ...because timing something that moves at the same speed all the time is easy. It's a constant rate, no adapting required. To hit someone's head, however, you have to predict where they are going to be and hit a small moving target, obviously much harder.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS The player 100% controls his strafe, while again the same cannot be said for bloom. You control what level of randomness your gun will function at.[/quote] Does the player not control the level of randomness within his strafe to make it more difficult for the enemy to hit him?[/quote] Its not random, at all. He's controlling it, 100%. The calculations that go into where your bullet goes is simply not controlled by the user.[/quote] And the ROF and Bloom is being controlled by the player. My point is a player can choose to be accurate/inaccurate the exact same way a player can choose to run in a strait line or jump randomly left and right.

Read the highly-popular "larger ammo clip increases skill gap" topic and you people will understand why the reticle bloom isn't always 'skilful'.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] change4a5_ You must be retarded. it is completely controlled by the player.[/quote] And so is bloom you little genius. Oh and strafing is supposed to be random,if it was predicable it would be useless.[/quote] You have no comprehension ability. You're right, bloom is controlled by the player but guess what isn't? THE BULLETS WHEN YOU DON'T WAIT FOR THE BLOOM TO DIE DOWN. Jesus Christ you are dense, of -blam!- course you control the bloom, congratulations for pointing that out dumbass. What you don't control is the path the bullets take if you don't wait for the bloom, hence, luck. And strafing isn't random, you really need to look up that word. It is completely controlled by the player which = NOT RANDOM

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] We Told You So it's easy as -blam!-.[/quote] How is aiming at someone's head more difficult?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS The player 100% controls his strafe, while again the same cannot be said for bloom. You control what level of randomness your gun will function at.[/quote] Does the player not control the level of randomness within his strafe to make it more difficult for the enemy to hit him?[/quote] Its not random, at all. He's controlling it, 100%. The calculations that go into where your bullet goes is simply not controlled by the user.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] We Told You So That's a joke, the bloom is easy to control for anyone that doesn't have some kind of mental deficiency. Aim take much more skill.[/quote] Which do you think is harder consistantly hitting a button at a exact,down to the millisecond,interval or pinning the tail on a donkey without a blindfold?[/quote] Your analogy makes absolutely no sense. HURR DURR LETS TALK ABOUT PINNING THE TAIL ON THE DONKEY WHEN IT IS NOT ANALOGOUS TO AIMING IN A VIDEO GAME AT ALL And you don't have to time the bloom to the exact millisecond either, nice hyperbole. If you seriously think timing the bloom is hard then there must be something wrong with you, it's easy as -blam!-.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] thashiznit314 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A random loser [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] thashiznit314 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A random loser [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GuyInTrees how the f does bloom make shooting more skillfull or less skillfull?[/quote]Anyone can fire as fast as the RoF allows. You need skill to manage the size of the reticle under pressure and adjust your rate of fire depending on the situation.[/quote] It took timing to excel with the precision weapons, even without reticle bloom. You fired when you were on target, and pause when your reticle was off target. Its a simple concept but execution of this was what gave the weapons a pretty large skill gap. You make it seem way easier than it actually was. Also, anyone can learn to control bloom, too. Once the game gets to a point where everybody has a basic understanding of it, the skill means nothing. It will only separate brand new players from the average players. At expert level gameplay, the mechanic adds nothing that makes the game more strategically interesting or skill based, it only limits individual aiming skill and caps a players ability to land consecutive headshots. [/quote]You can just say the same thing about aiming. You can say that at a certain point, everyone will be able to keep the crosshair on the enemy and that the game takes no skill because the ability to aim only separates new players from average ones. [/quote] No, you can't say the same thing about aiming. The skill involved with aim is nearly limitless and can be improved upon with practice. The skill involved in controlling bloom is finite. Eventually, there's going to be one tactic that works best for each range. No amount of practice is going to make one firing rate better than the other. At expert level play, the only factor it will be playing is the same thing random spread on the BR does, limiting the weapons effectiveness and increasing the element of chance. All bloom does is add complexity that makes the game harder to learn yet no more interesting to play. Its a pathetic stab at realism in a game where it doesn't belong. [/quote] You must have a fundamental misunderstanding about reticle bloom if you think that will happen. Do you honestly think there will be a certain rate of fire that is optimal in all situations and that all players will find it? Do you realize that the optimal rate of fire is context specific? If an enemy is 100m away, you should be firing at him as if he is 50m away. Your rate of fire is completely influenced by the enemy's distance from you. And yes, practice will make one person's firing rate better than another. Do you think that every single player will be firing at the same rate at every situation? Do you think robots are playing these games? Human beings have something called error. A human player cannot fire the correct rate of fire with less than a millisecond of error each time. At any given range, there is a certain sweet spot that is neither too fast or too slow. If you fire at that rate, you will be doing the maximum amount of damage. However, it is simply not possible for every player to hit that sweet spot. In fact, you will either be slightly too fast or slightly too slow every time. Getting the absolute optimum timing is like trying to balance a pencil on your finger. It will either fall one way or the other. So no matter what there will be error and the player with the lower margin of error will win. Saying that every player will hit that balance flawlessly is completely ridiculous. [Edited on 06.03.2010 12:22 AM PDT]