Some of these points have been said before, I'm just going to sum them up. Bloom does add a slim amount of randomness, but it also adds a valuable skill to the game. The alternatives to bloom are much worse, depending on what is trying to be accomplished. Assume this is the DMR. All of these require you to have good aim, so I won't include that. The only variable is what additional skill each of these require in order for somebody to master them. No spread: You just need to learn to fire fast (easy) Static RoF: Nothing. (really easy) Random Spread: You need to learn to fire fast (easy) Bloom: Learn to adjust your RoF depending on the situation (hard) Now, there are a few questions we have to consider: Is the small chance that poor aim can result in a kill worth the added skill? Do we want to encourage or discourage spamming the trigger?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Havoxfire Yeah, first off it's [b]reticle[/b], not [url=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_30R18ypBl6Q/SG-Bf2KCD-I/AAAAAAAAAPg/tMTxtIsExBM/s400/1857reticule.jpg]reticule.[/url] [/quote] My computer is telling me reticle is an error and it recommends reticule. I trust it over you, sorry. [/quote]Then maybe you should read Bungie's updates. They specified that it's not reticule, but rather reticle...unless you would rather talk about a woman's handbag or purse. If you're laughing right now you either know what I mean or you need to look up the definition of reticule and stop laughing. In fact...here: [url]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reticule[/url] [Edited on 06.04.2010 8:18 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A random loser [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Havoxfire Yeah, first off it's [b]reticle[/b], not [url=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_30R18ypBl6Q/SG-Bf2KCD-I/AAAAAAAAAPg/tMTxtIsExBM/s400/1857reticule.jpg]reticule.[/url] [/quote] My computer is telling me reticle is an error and it recommends reticule. I trust it over you, sorry. [/quote] He's right. I used to always type reticule, but an update corrected me. [/quote] [url=http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reticule]Reticule[/url] [url=http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reticle]Reticle[/url] Both are correct and both have less common archaic definitions. Reticule is the more common word though.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Havoxfire Yeah, first off it's [b]reticle[/b], not [url=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_30R18ypBl6Q/SG-Bf2KCD-I/AAAAAAAAAPg/tMTxtIsExBM/s400/1857reticule.jpg]reticule.[/url] [/quote] My computer is telling me reticle is an error and it recommends reticule. I trust it over you, sorry. [/quote] He's right. I used to always type reticule, but an update corrected me.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] II is over9000 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] II is over9000 Reticule bloom isn't actually random.[/quote] It is in its current form where kill times are so off the charts long that you're forced to use less than ideal ROFs for most engagements. Your two options are !- Use the proper accurate ROF and watch the guy get away or @- Use a more random ROF and hope you get the dice roll. ^less than fun.[/quote] I should have said "not *that* random," but yeah, it's not what you think. The bullets are EXTREMELY unlikely to hit if the bloom is larger than your target. I literally never once got a hit when spamming shots except at an inconsequentially short range. The chances of a bullet not hitting at a point on the "bloom circle," whether in or out, is either 0 or insignificant, as far as I could tell, and I tested it on a guest.[/quote] Outside of invasion I never used the 100% reset bloom ROF with a DMR. The kill time like that is simply too long to be effective. Instead id use a slightly bloomed reticule which most of the time would net me kills but how many shots that took seemed to be predicated 50% on my aim and 50% on sheer luck of the draw.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] II is over9000 Reticule bloom isn't actually random.[/quote] It is in its current form where kill times are so off the charts long that you're forced to use less than ideal ROFs for most engagements. Your two options are !- Use the proper accurate ROF and watch the guy get away or @- Use a more random ROF and hope you get the dice roll. ^less than fun.[/quote] I should have said "not *that* random," but yeah, it's not what you think. The bullets are EXTREMELY unlikely to hit if the bloom is larger than your target. I literally never once got a hit when spamming shots except at an inconsequentially short range. The chances of a bullet not hitting at a point on the "bloom circle," whether in or out, is either 0 or insignificant, as far as I could tell, and I tested it on a guest.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] II is over9000 Reticule bloom isn't actually random.[/quote] It is in its current form where kill times are so off the charts long that you're forced to use less than ideal ROFs for most engagements. Your two options are 1- Use the proper accurate ROF and watch the guy get away or 2- Use a more random ROF and hope you get the dice roll. ^less than fun. [Edited on 06.03.2010 8:57 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Havoxfire Yeah, first off it's [b]reticle[/b], not [url=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_30R18ypBl6Q/SG-Bf2KCD-I/AAAAAAAAAPg/tMTxtIsExBM/s400/1857reticule.jpg]reticule.[/url] [/quote] My computer is telling me reticle is an error and it recommends reticule. I trust it over you, sorry. [/quote] It's reticule. The way I see it, as an option it would be fine, but then again, that could be difficult to code into the engine, so I'd rather they polished other areas than work on that, but if it's a simple fix then they should go for it. HOWEVER Reticule bloom isn't actually random.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A random loser More skill = Less competitive? I don't understand.[/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Havoxfire Yeah, first off it's [b]reticle[/b], not [url=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_30R18ypBl6Q/SG-Bf2KCD-I/AAAAAAAAAPg/tMTxtIsExBM/s400/1857reticule.jpg]reticule.[/url] [/quote] My computer is telling me reticle is an error and it recommends reticule. I trust it over you, sorry.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Matu Flp Krawfe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Havoxfire Go play Halo 3 if you don't want bloom, I know I wont miss you.[/quote] Even though I am in agreement with you that Reach should have bloom, telling people to just shut up about their complaints and go play something else really isn't the way to resolve anything. Once the game ships and these players find themselves completely unfulfilled with the changes made to the game, they're going to make that decision on their own anyway without any of us internet jackasses telling them to make that decision before the game is even released. For all we know, once they spend some quality time with the finished product they may very well begin to like the new mechanic and consequently add, though their play, to the game's community. If they just -blam!- off now and stick to Halo 3 at the behest of some stranger mocking them for having a difference in opinion, then they'll miss out on that opportunity and add, as a result of their entrenchment, not to any productive body of playrs but to the growing stagnation of the gaming public and the industry as a whole. Better, therefore, to simply address the issues of the arguments themsleves and through discussion come to a better understanding of just what our opinions are about bloom, or any other part of the game, so we can better approach the game as it's released this September. Or at least, better if you want to actually hold a reasonable exchange between individuals. If you just want to position yourself as head internet dick for the purpose of stroking your ego then by all means tell people that they should just GTFO, GFY, and all that is implied by "GPH3." We'll all respect you for it. (Irony intended.)[/quote] Nice wall of text really sticking it to me. I like the part where you attempt to twist my words by making me sound like I'm an "internet dick." I didn't know my comment justified such a monument; I'm flattered. All I want is people to stop complaining about [b]core[/b] mechanics that will not go away (reticle bloom, AA). They're free to critique them however they desire, but simply stating that people should have the option to toggle it on and off like a light switch is just not viable, sorry. Go play Halo 3 if you don't want reticle bloom. =p

Keep the bloom.

reticle bloom (on) or (off)

Yes!!!!!!!!!! Retical Bloom FTL

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cowleyad Uh.. Reticle bloom is the exact [i]opposite[/i] of "randomness." You can literally see where your shots should land... In fact, reticle bloom forces you to stay calm in stressful situations and maintain your bearings while you make concise and timed shots. Doesn't this take [i]more[/i] skill than just spamming the trigger? The idiocy in threads like this make me laugh...[/quote] Oh... OK, You have a mod that lets you see where the bullet will land? Sweet, good for you, I guess the rest of us will just have to make do with our shots landing randomly inside the reticle. Also the people comparing to CS: Its really easy to get a feel for where your shots will go when spraying with the AK/Colt, but the reality is you shouldn't need to spam. You can kill someone in 2~3 reasonably well aimed bullets, before bloom even sets in, this would be the equivalent of not getting bloom with the DMR until you've fired 5~6 shots. So of course CS players don't complain about it: it rarely affects them.

[quote] Bloom has always been here, even in Halo CE. Reach just visualized it. Bloom itself just shows the spread of bullets as you fire them, bullet spread/bloom, has always been here [/quote] Too right, Bloom has always been there. Visualising it is good becuase now we can take steps to minimize it

this was done to make it so people wouldn't use modded controllers AND so halo wasn't just about spamming more ammo than the other guy

In my opinion, whether or not a FPS game is random or not is completely irrelevant, your playing on XBL, therefore you are dealing with random gameplay. Any game over the internet is subject to randomness by the very nature of online connections. By the OP's complaint, every XBL game fails the competitive community. Now, let's take a step back from blind cynicism and realize that the bloom is user controlled, meaning that while there is a random element (within the bloom), that ver element is controlled by the shooter. Compared to the weapon spread of every Halo game, which was not user dictated or even visually measurable, how can you say that Reach falls short of allowing competitive gameplay? Bottom line, you need to adjust, just like everyone has had to adjust from one Halo title to to the other. The difficulty now, is in the fact that the adjustment to Reach is an adjustment to a slightly more difficult mechanic. Effective trigger spamming is gone, and I honestly have no idea how the hell anyone every considered such a thing to be the measure of competitive gameplay.

I fail to comprehend how a game mechanic which encourages players to place/time their shots, is going to reduce skill? Surely overcoming your reticle bloom will mean you are more skilful than the "10 year olds with severe ADHD" who run around spamming the trigger and thus sending their shots all over the map? Or is this logical and not something a Pro will be able to understand? [Edited on 06.03.2010 11:00 AM PDT]

Uh.. Reticle bloom is the exact [i]opposite[/i] of "randomness." You can literally see where your shots should land... In fact, reticle bloom forces you to stay calm in stressful situations and maintain your bearings while you make concise and timed shots. Doesn't this take [i]more[/i] skill than just spamming the trigger? The idiocy in threads like this make me laugh... [Edited on 06.03.2010 10:56 AM PDT]

I am still laughing at the fact that everyone seems to ignore that some type of randomness occurs in all FPS competitive games. Just look at the Counter Strike example I brought up with recoil and people who spray and pray. Also being able to predict the recoil and spread perfectly is impossible so technically that adds some kind of "random" to the game. Have people ever complained about that? No. Now Halo adds bloom to their game and people freak out. People feel like they are entitled to everything. Yea I know we are the consumer and yes we give Bungie our money, but seriously...this does not take away from competitive gaming. You guys are just spoiled and forget what it means to play competitively in any situation, just like in Counter Strike with it's recoil and bullet spread. I dare you guys complaining about bloom to join Counter Strike competitively and proceed to complain about the randomness of recoil and bullet spread. You'll be laughed out of the building.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Defense The point is that there is a chance you will win by spamming, no matter how small of a chance that is, if it adds a random factor into the game it needs to be removed. Also it's packet loss, not package loss. Please rethink your concept before reposting, I don't care if it happens 1/100000000000 times, if it can happen it doesn't have a place in a competitive fps.[/quote] And by removing bloom, both parts won't spam the trigger? Then if both parts have equally good aim and they keep the crosshair on each other, it'll be the person who shot the other guy first who'll win. Okay, I'll rethink my concept [quote]it doesn't have a place in a competitive fps.[/quote] Who said that the Halo series was made for competaive gaming? Does not say anything about competative gaming on any of my DVD boxes. Who took Halo in to compete? The competative gamers. Did they play by the game mechanics in place? Yes they did. Now, you apparently call Halo Reach a competative FPS, it's not out yet, but who made it a competative game? Competative gamers. Competative gamers have taken a game, knowing the basics of how it works and turned it into a competative game, for them that is, Reach is still a game for casuals. Then also, if bloom were to be turned off, where does weapon balance go? Would Bungie have to make a weapon customization list, or try to rebalance the weapons for the "no bloom option". The logical thing here would be a weapon customization list, but then again, what kind of option should they have in that then? Damage, rate of fire, clip sizes, reload speeds? Several options. Then in with that option, there's the possibility of glitches that Bungie didn't find that can be game breaking. Seems like a lot of work to eliminate something that have small chance of happening. Then there's the possibility of Bungie balancing the weapons for the "no bloom option", all weapons would have to be balanced with all weapons in mind. Again, quite a lot of work, unless they of course just leave it as it is, but then blance could be screwed up pretty much. I'd rather have a game with small chances of things happening, rahter than seeing Bungie spending time, money and disc space to eliminate something that won't happen a lot anyway.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Havoxfire Go play Halo 3 if you don't want bloom, I know I wont miss you.[/quote] Even though I am in agreement with you that Reach should have bloom, telling people to just shut up about their complaints and go play something else really isn't the way to resolve anything. Once the game ships and these players find themselves completely unfulfilled with the changes made to the game, they're going to make that decision on their own anyway without any of us internet jackasses telling them to make that decision before the game is even released. For all we know, once they spend some quality time with the finished product they may very well begin to like the new mechanic and consequently add, though their play, to the game's community. If they just -blam!- off now and stick to Halo 3 at the behest of some stranger mocking them for having a difference in opinion, then they'll miss out on that opportunity and add, as a result of their entrenchment, not to any productive body of playrs but to the growing stagnation of the gaming public and the industry as a whole. Better, therefore, to simply address the issues of the arguments themsleves and through discussion come to a better understanding of just what our opinions are about bloom, or any other part of the game, so we can better approach the game as it's released this September. Or at least, better if you want to actually hold a reasonable exchange between individuals. If you just want to position yourself as head internet dick for the purpose of stroking your ego then by all means tell people that they should just GTFO, GFY, and all that is implied by "GPH3." We'll all respect you for it. (Irony intended.) [Edited on 06.03.2010 9:34 AM PDT]

its only random if you shoot at the weapons max RoF

Yeah, first off it's [b]reticle[/b], not [url=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_30R18ypBl6Q/SG-Bf2KCD-I/AAAAAAAAAPg/tMTxtIsExBM/s400/1857reticule.jpg]reticule.[/url] Second, reticle bloom is a core game mechanic of Reach. Just because people aren't able to adapt to the new concept of pacing shots, doesn't mean a select few should be exempt. Go play Halo 3 if you don't want bloom, I know I wont miss you.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lies [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lies [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NERF THE FRAGS Strafing adds depth without introducing randomness. The same cannot be said for bloom.[/quote] How so? Strafing is meant to be random so you're not shot correct? and it's something the player controls ... Seems the same to me.[/quote] Strafing is not random at all, player movements are controlled by the player 100%. The same cannot be said by people shooting the DMR while it has bloom, the projectiles are controlled by an RNG.[/quote] And bloom is controlled by the player 100% ... you just wait.[/quote] But what if you don't wait for the bloom? Then your shots are controlled partly by an RNG. Here's the scenario that people don't like. Player A and Player B start shooting each other with DMRs at the same time. Player A decides to time his shots to wait for the bloom to die down. Player B, on the other hand, decides to spam the trigger as fast as he can. Neither of them misplace their reticule, both of them are aiming perfectly. However, B manages to kill A because even though he didn't take the bloom into account, his shots still hit because he got lucky. Now you have player A losing the 1v1 even though he did everything right. He timed his shots, didn't miss, and still lost because his opponent opted for a riskier strategy that required luck to prevail. Someone shouldn't be able to do everything correctly and still lose.[/quote] You address a common misconception. You assume Player A did everything right because he waited for the bloom to die down, which means you also assume that mastering bloom equals only firing shots when the reticule is small. This is not the case. Bloom is about firing faster or slower depending on the situation. It's about knowing when to unload, and when to take your time. The closer you are to your opponent, the faster you should fire. The further away you are, the slower you should fire. If you time your shots in close range, while your opponent unloads his clip, you just got outplayed. You could have unloaded his shields away, then delivered a headshot. Besides, lack of bloom rewards spammers. Think about it, two players see each other. They begin to fire. One player times his shots, while another spams. They are both able to keep their reticules on one another (it's fairly easy) and it's a mid-range battle. With bloom, the spammer has a chance, but it's a slim chance. Without bloom, the spammer wins because he is able to deliver more shots in less time with no penalty. He may not have gotten a headshot, and he may have shot his opponent's arm now and then, but he wins because his shots were just as accurate as the guy who times his shots.