Allow them to keep their OHK ranges. That's where a shotgun should be....
However, make the range falloff after that point much more sharp. Currently, and since the start of Destiny, the skill gap is very low when using them. While other weapons have had their skill gaps changed throughout history, shotguns have remained pretty stable and as viable as ever. Everyone has been tackling it's OHK range solely, never ever touching the range falloff instead.
Shotguns are meant to do their damage in the short range. The more powerful ones are meant to focus their damage right into their target in front of them - hence why they should ALWAYS BE SLOW (The RoF-Impact relationship of every other weapon besides rockets and swords). The less powerful ones are more meant to pick off someone so they can be hit with something else. They can still do well in the face-to-face combat scenarios but aren't as effective as the ones made to do that high, close damage.
To make this scenario actually work (EDIT:) four things have to happen:
1.the whole RoF-Impact relationship needs to be brought into play.
2.the second being a new Impact-Range relationship specifically for shotguns
3.A new stability-bullet spread relationship must be implemented (which I will get more into as a later post/edit. Most likely going for a really high stability will make he bullet spread slightly tighter. Who knows, maybe shot package can make SOME sort of comeback.
4. A similar impact-magazine size relationship like other types of weapons.
To explain number two:[spoiler]The high impact shotguns are meant to do very high damage in the closest ranges. Usually these rounds are denser or heavier than normal so the barrel will shoot them at a slower velocity than other lower impact shotguns. So while they'll do nice damage in the shortest ranges, past that they'll slow down really quickly to a point where their size/weight makes them ineffective. To represent this, higher impact shotguns will have the lowest range cap of all the shotguns. Where that cap would be is up for testing and debate.
As the density and weight of the pellets decrease, the barrels will fire them at faster velocities which leads to them staying effective at very slightly farther and farther ranges. In game, this would be represented by a gradual increase of the range cap of a certain shotgun as the impact decreases. However, as the range cap gets higher, the range falloff gets more gradual within its respective range if the range is below the cap. But no matter what range you have on a shotgun, it's damage will only completely disappear at the same point. The range stat just determines at what point that damage starts to steeply decrease. like the higher impact class, after hitting the edge of its range it'll sharply decrease in damage. [u]SEE THE LINK FOR MORE DETAILS[/u]
[b][i][u]Note: As a few side effects...[/u][/i][/b]
1.Aggressive ballistics while not decreasing the fire rate will lower the range cap by a certain amount instead of actual range - SPECIFIC TO SHOTGUNS! Honestly, on other weapons, aggressive ballistics barely does enough to counter its setbacks. That should be fixed.
2.Like now, rangefinder at the range cap will exceed the actual cap by the same small amount that it does now.
3.However, with this, you don't have to immediately dismantle a shotgun if it does not have range perks. While it will go down in damage output, it would not be as drastic as it is now... especially when I try to figure how to actually make higher stability useful - most likely bullet spread wise(which means getting rid of the RNG component). That'll have to wait.
4.The only shotguns that would be exempt from this would be Universal Remote, the Fourth horseman, and the Chaperone.
[url=https://www.desmos.com/calculator/avwyidcw7x]Graphical representation[/url]
This is a graph that represents what I'm talking about in more mathematical detail.
Rm is the range cap with respect to impact.
Ra is any value of range going from 1 to 1.05Rm - though you'll have to put those values in yourself.
Df is the smallest distance which falloff has an effect - after the pellets reach the distance set by your shotgun's range value.
Dm is the base max distance(the base being an impact of 67 and range of 32) the range can reach.
Cd is the distance coefficient with respect to Dm.
Dr is the distance reached by the range value.
Cr is the range coefficient that determines the pattern of the falloff after reaching Dr.
a,b,c,f, and g are constants used to calculate actual pellet damage with respect to their impacts.
D is the damage function while P(x) is the percentage function over distance.
D•P(x) is the final function of pellet damage over distance.
There are [EDIT]four curves being displayed on the coordinate field:
The [u]top most curve[/u] shows the damage vs distance relationship of a Final Round shot with the added boost of Crowd Control;
The [u]second-to-top-most curve[/u] shows the same relationship but of a shotgun with only Final Round active.
The [u]middle curve[/u] shows the same relationship but of a shotgun with only Crowd Control active;
The [u]bottom curve[/u] shows the same relationship in its base form - AKA base damage.
And before any of you say so, while you would think that it would make the lower impact shotguns the OP choice you have to remember that bullet spread is STILL a factor, so even if you have max range some of the pellets will miss the target in a hopefully non-RNG fashion.
Also, this graph is assuming that all shotguns fire 12 pellets per shot. If a shotgun fires more or fewer than 12 pellets, just adjust damage accordingly.[/spoiler]
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2 RepliesI really like this type of post. The actual math and logic is way better than the anecdotal evidence of "this keeps killing me, so nerf it" that shotgun-related posts tend to have. If you plan on doing another shotgun post like this, do you think you could go over their burst damage and performance in PvE?
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Edited by sonicfind: 1/22/2017 4:54:13 AMEdit acknowledges the need for a bigger mag size to compensate for lower impact. Edit2 acknowledges a change made to the graphical representation.
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2 RepliesI misread that as "meth" incoming. I was confused for a moment.
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6 RepliesNo more nerfs to shotguns. Stop. Bring primaries back to being more viable and consistent. No nerfs to anymore more secondaries. You mention making other archetypes of shotguns viable in pvp. Here's the thing, that's never going to happen. When people use shotguns and they want to win, they're automatically going to go with as much impact and range as possible. You nerf the matador and pc archetype ? Everyone is going to start using the next highest range and impact. There are some archetypes that are just unreliable in pve. You have to go into an engagement with 2 shots normally compared to the 1 it takes for pc or matadors. There are some archetypes that just aren't meant for pvp. You just gotta accept that. That is the problem with having multiple archetypes in a weapon type. Not every single one of them are going to be viable in every single situation. I just don't want to see more shotgun nerfs, everyrhing that you went in depth with in this thread was pointless. Like I said, no more nerfs, just buff primaries back to how they were. Male hc's and PR's perform how they did during HoW, and buff high RoF AR's back to the pre nerf era of doctorine and buff the low RoF AR's back to how they were when suros had its first nerf that affected all of that archetype. That way all primaries become effective so people aren't just using Thorn or TLW. Then we will see a dramatic reduction of this secondary meta we're stuck in. We don't need more nerfs, I can't stress that enough.
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11 RepliesNo. You can't touch shotguns in there range because the only class that can close that gap is titans. Hunter's are slow, warlock's are slow. High fire rate shotgun's are invalid, you get less ammo for high fire rate shotguns over low fire rate shotgun's. This game is built in a ridiculous way. It is a losing battle currently, there is no hope until destiny 2. I guess we will just have to wait and see what Bungie comes up with.
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1 ReplyI would enjoy this actually since it would make Immobus more fun to use. I don't use Armor of Light on my bubble because its just a death trap but i really like the look of my shotgun but ive been slowly forced to change because of the bias shotguns have now.
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1 ReplyWow this is really well thought out and rational, kuddos to you! I even like your preposed solution. Unfortunantly posts like yours are commonly roped in with the whiners and "nerf herders" Again, good for you man. I know it doesnt mean much but i appreciate the time and effort put into this post. Like well earned
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18 RepliesShotguns got 9 nerfs they are fine If anything they increase the skillgap since they show who has good awarness
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4 RepliesEdited by sonicfind: 12/25/2016 12:35:14 AMHas the word math in the title. [b]Doesn't even get as much traction as a regular "nerf Shotguns without a thought out fix or reasoning."[/b] Feedback forums in a nutshell(with a few exemptions.