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12/22/2016 5:39:28 PM
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Faintz - I really like you as both a player and streamer, so take this feedback from a place of respect.
Here you're certainly catering to a player base that doesn't represent the meaning of trials. Things like nerfing skorris, better rewards, no heavy, and better connections everyone can agree with, but making the actual system easier for people removes the exclusivity of the lighthouse and considerably lessens the reward of getting there. When we carry people to their first visit in the lighthouse, there is an absolute joy that is not found in any other game mode. If that gets lessened, then that feeling will be diluted and no longer will it be an achievement. No longer will people desire it, like they do now. The key to trials is that exclusivity and that needs to be protected. Yes this means that certain players will not achieve it without help, but that is also why those players try every weekend for it. The people that complain here will get there once or twice on your new system and will stop playing the game anyways. Why? Because they were never really invested in the game mode in the first place. They want it so they can say they did it and then they'll move on.
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Trials is a joke who's impact on this community has been a corrosive one.
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"When we carry people to their first visit in the lighthouse, there is an absolute joy that is not found in any other game mode." I occasionally do raid help and during my time doing raid runs I've been fortunate enough to help people with their first Raid completion whether it was VoG, Crota, King's Fall or even WOTM and their reactions have been on par with them getting to the lighthouse for the first time. People will in most situations be excited the first time they complete any endgame activity, this is not exclusive to the Lighthouse. "If that gets lessened, then that feeling will be diluted and no longer will it be an achievement. No longer will people desire it, like they do now. The key to trials is that exclusivity and that needs to be protected." Once again the feeling of getting to the Lighthouse is going to be the same regardless. Most people would be excited just to see the Lighthouse regardless of how they get there, hence why you have the opportunity to carry players there. The very exclusivity that you feel needs to be protected is the very reason why many people don't play the event in the first place. "The people that complain here will get there once or twice on your new system and will stop playing the game anyways. Why? Because they were never really invested in the game mode in the first place." The reason why those players aren't invested in the game mode is because its designed to exclude them from playing in the first place. Changing the game mode to focus on including players is more likely to keep those players playing than forcing those very same players to look for carries to get to the Lighthouse.
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Or cheat to get there. Finally. Someone who gets it.
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Then guess what the streamers who carry people who suck will have too get a real job go figure lol !!!! So yea trials needs too change you should be banned if you account recover or carry people
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Just because you lose every round doesn't mean others should be punished for it
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I been flawless so your opinion is invalid
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Then why are you complaining?[spoiler]lets be honest you problably got carried hard LOL[/spoiler]
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Maybe because he isn't just concerned about himself.
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No actually I didn't get carried lol
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Your logic is flawed. The Lighthouse loses all meaning when most people get there are from carries, and paid carries. I have been there 20 times with my team of friends. On top of that, Mercury has seen many cheaters. Trials numbers are tanking each week. Less players are playing. Soon, you yourself won't be doing any "carries" as the top 1% will be the only people only doing Trials. Most trials wins are based on just abusing the META of Destiny and not on real skill, has been that way since Thorn was OP AF. Something needs to change.
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What I meant to say was bring y3 rewards to the bounties they might get some players back
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Not the problem. I don't give a shit about The Lighthouse. The only reason I'd play Trials would be to get the Egyptian-themed gear. But I'll be damned if I. Going to used as cannon fodder for streamers, cheaters, and someone's angry 15 year old. Whe you design an event from the ground up to exclude most people, sugar-coating that pile of shit won't help. Sugar coated shit is still shit. People aren't going to show up to get humiliated and abused for trinkets.
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As someone who never been flawless and never cared I only used to play y2 for gold bountie weapons and I was happy I played a few times y3 and it sucks. no rewards from bounties = no casual players like me to easily kill.
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Interesting. 20x eh? Except 17 in year 1. It's ok that you struggle with trials now, you don't need to act tough to make your point seem valid. My logic is correct, diluting the lighthouse makes it less desirable for those who do not regularly achieve it. For those that do, it is already diluted. And the trials population actually went up by approximately 22% this past week, so no it's not dwindling every week. And no most people aren't carried to the lighthouse. Some yea, but to say that more than 51% every week is carried is just garbage.
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No. Making it more inclusive simply eliminates the need for you. So---as is sadly too often the case in situations like this---you're making a self-interested argument and trying to present as a principled one. As best for the community rather than just simply best for you.
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Edited by The Last GRideR: 12/25/2016 10:45:00 PMSelf-interest?? Am I getting anything from this? No. Am I making money no? Am I getting famous? No. The only interest I have in this is keeping trials as an exclusive playlist for pvp players to earn rewards for skills acquired over days and days of practice. The only self-interest here is yours and making trials easier for nubcakes like yourself to get to the lighthouse. You will only be happy when 80-90% of the population reaches the lighthouse in a weekend. That's not competitive. That's called a freebie. Get out of here with that crap.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 12/25/2016 11:11:47 PMI have no dog in this fight other than the best interest of the community. I walked away from Trials after getting Dossed ---three times in a row---while on team with a 5 win ticket. In Week 2 of its life. I walked away because I could foresee the shit show it has now become: cheating, carries, paid carries, and an elite that has grown bored with an event that they mined everything they want from it and are no longer challenged by it. The problem with winner-take-all affairs is that that the leave the losers (legitimately) feeling resentful. Add to that Trials tendency to use the average player as nothing more than cannon fodder, and the average player feels USED and resentful. The problem with [i]exclusive[/i] things is that they exclude. They exclude and their effect on communities is toxic and divisive. What you fail to realize is that you have no [i]intrinsic right[/i] to exclusive rewards, just like no one has an intrinsic right to immense wealth. The rich keep their wealth only at the indulgence of a society's masses. They will only tolerate vast inequalities if and only if they feel that they have been arrived at in a fair and just manner. Without the support of the very average players you look down your nose at Trials is meaningless and cannot survive. I'm speaking up because the average player is starting to withdraw their support for Trials as well as many elites. Because people are finally starting to wake up to the unfairness baked into the very core of Trials. That it serves no purpose other than to allow the elite to exploit everyone else for fun-and-prizes. So people are either just not showing up to play, or are actively trying to undermine it. Unless Bungie regains their support---and your "Let Them Eat Cake" attitude won't get it done---this event will die. Because it is dying right now. Just look at the forum. Practically no one has anything positive to say about it. Almost no one enjoys playing in it. Everyone wants either the rewards or the prestige the see as being locked behind it. Communism died in the Soviet Union without bloodshed because the common man just withdrew his support for it. It literally happened overnight. It was like everyone woke up one morning and just thought as one people: [i]Enough of this shit. [/i]. No one would abide by it. No one except the party elite ---those benefitting the most from it's unfairness---would defend it. Trials is barreling down that same road to that same end.
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Well first off communism failed because it is an unsustainable economic system. Inequality for none means inequality for all. The free market principles of supply and demand are the inescapable elements that determine if a product survives or dies. If trials were dying then the market would force its hand and it would die. Speaking of communism, its fundamental principle is socialism, which is exactly what you're proposing. Everyone gets exactly the same thing and everyone is included and treated the same. But guess what, that system failed and it's failing in every country that's ever used it. North Korea, Russia, China (communist government with now a capitalist market), etc. This system may not be perfect, but it does the most important thing well. It limits the rewards to a certain percentage that have the highest skill. Same as the free market that the world lives in. Only the best products survive and sell and wealth is given to those people. To think that there should be no wealth simply is a naive misinterpretation of Adam Smiths, the wealth of nations. Btw, all this ddosing nonsense, I play an average of 115-150 games a weekend and I've been ddosed once. Lagging out of a game or getting booted to orbit is not cheating, that's a bungie issue and player connection issue. Btw, if you don't play trials, then you simply don't have a relevant opinion. I'm sorry, but to have a valid opinion, you might need to have experience in the field. I wouldn't let a lawyer do my plumbing...just saying.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 12/26/2016 12:13:03 AM1. I'm a child of the Cold War, I've probably forgotten more about why communism collapsed than you have to teach me. 2. Communism failed because it was an unworkable solution to Capitalisms legitimate problems. Namely it's inability to distinguish between enlightened self-intrest and simple greed. [i]Regulated [/i] capitalism is a more nuanced, and more durable solution to the problems Marx saw in [i]Das Kapital[/i] 3. Like regulated capitalism my solution succumbs to the problems of neither communism, nor laissez-faire capitalism. Communisms fatal flaw is that people will see as I just being required to give different levels of effort to obtain the same reward: inequality of obligation, equality of outcome. Unregulated Capitalisms flaw can be seen in the defensiveness around Trials---or The African Slave Trade 150'years ago. Those who have wealth and power will use that power to defend their power and privileges no matter how unjustly they have been come by. My solution is one of [i]Equality of Opportunity, but not Outcome[/i] min other words True Meritocracy. Ranked-and-tiered play, with a separate loot stream for each tier of play: Diamond, Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze. Rank teams by skill. You can only play with team mates of the same skill level ( no carries). You compete in Trials but are matched against teams of your own skill level [i]the entire card[/i]. Three losses and you're out. Go flawless and you go to the Lighthouse, and get the best gear reserved for your tier/flight. Go flawless your done with that character for the week,but earn the right to compete in the next higher tier the following week. Keep winning? You keep moving up the ranks. Lose too often? You get demoted. Everyone earns their place. Everyone has a FAIR chance to play and experience some success and move up. But everyone also gets tested. The best players will play the games best for the game's best and most prestigious rewards. Instead of being a joke, Trials will actually begin to identify the best players. If you see someone walking around with flawless ornaments and gear from the Diamond flight? You are looking at a certifiable BAD ASS. Because there is only one way to get it. Earn your way up, and dominate the game's best players. Of course ther will be a lot less elites walking around in it because they'll finally be required to beat worthy opponents for their entire card... And not just 1 or 2 late matches. So a lot of people running around in Trial gear now would not be able to earn the top rewards in MY version of this event. Because my event would be truly COMPETITIVE. Socialism my ass. Until Trials recreates itself like this, don't talk to me about merit.
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Less desirable means nobody watching twitch hanging out in the streams too earn a free raffle or crap which means steamers won't get paid lol so your views are flawed lol
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Not flawed. Just self-serving. [i]"Never expect a man to understand something when his paycheck depends on him ***not*** understanding it." ----Sinclair Lewis.[/i] Asking a streamer who gets views and subs from Lighthouse carries to understand that Trials is broken and toxic is like trying to get a CEO of an oil company to understand Climate Change is being driven by fossil fuel consumption. Not. Going. To. Happen.
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Very valid and well articulated point of view
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Sorry dude, in November of last year, I stopped playing this game for 8 months straight. If you are gonna lurk stats, check it. Some of us own other games
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Maybe that makes your opinion even less valid. You ate away for almost a war and expect to be the same while everyone else has grown and gotten better.
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Naw, I just had better games to play. Like BF4, Fallout 4. I wasn't a slave to Destiny and I had other games to play.
