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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Phosra: 12/24/2016 8:15:54 PM
23

We the guardians, are dark.

Toland, the Shattered Toland, the Shattered understands the Darkness as the natural evolutionary endpoint of the entire universe. Since the beginning of time, everything has been in competition with everything else for no reason, other than that is the way of the universe: the law of the jungle. As atoms came into being, they defeated the "primordial broth" that preceded it. From atoms came stars, from stars came galaxies, worlds were created, and finally life arose, all due to the eternal competition. Toland envisions a future where three archetypal "nations" compete with other: the first represents the perfect rule of law, the second represents knowledge made paramount, and the third represents sheer, total conquest. The third nation will succeed, inevitably, and in time will lead to a greater conflict between other nations which all represent the desire to conquer and dominate. The universe thus becomes a place where only the most ruthless entities succeed, to the point where they actively hunt and exterminate other life long before it can ever be a true threat. Finally, at the end of time there will be only one entity that rules the universe so absolutely that nothing will ever exist except by its consent, so it will rule forever. In essence, Toland asserts that this incontestable supremacy is the goal or driving force of the Darkness. An alternative way of life, where law and knowledge and might worked together rather than competed, as in the case of humanity and the City, is little more than "the dream of small minds", and is unlikely to succeed against an entity of pure conquest. Source - destinypedia We assault our enemies before they can become a threat. We conqure our enemy's territories and slaughter them. Every time we get better gear, find a new powerful exotic, upgrade our subclass, it's just to allow us to kill our enemies faster. What you call darkness, is the end of you evolution. - Oryx Oryx was right. Guardians There are a handful of Guardians who fell into the darkness, notably Dredgen Yor. Yor came to desire taking innocent lives and sowing despair, claiming he had developed a hunger for it. Toland, the Shattered claimed to be able to communicate with the Darkness, whereas Eris Morn was able to survive and escape the Hellmouth wielding the very power she fought against. Eris had one time even used the power of Darkness to rescue the Guardian from being trapped in the Oversoul Throne. As noted above, it would appear that the Darkness attempts to turn Guardians away from the light. One example is when Pujari had his vision of the Black Garden; the vision made him doubt the righteousness of the Guardians when the vision told him, "You are a dead thing made by a dead power in the shape of the dead. All you will ever do is kill. You do not belong here. This is a place of life." This hearkens back to Ghost Fragment: Darkness 4 (The Black Garden: Darkness), where the Darkness calls Guardians "a dead husk" animated by "an ancient corpse," referring to the "dead" Traveler. Binary Star Cult A heretical position from the Binary Star Cult states that the Traveler itself triggered the collapse, and used humanity as a sacrifice/proxy army in its war against the Darkness. The traveler made us immediately belive it was good with no proof, just lies. When you see this: [url]http://geekparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Destiny-E3-2014.jpg[/url] you know these are evil things. And for those who say we aren't [I]dark[/I], we are using principles of the darkness. Let's use [i]dark[/i] power for a [I]light[/I] cause: [url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/217365362?sort=0&page=0[/url]
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#Destiny #lore

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  • Well researched and intriguing post. It would be interesting to see an arc of the story going to guardians embracing the "darkness" as a last ditch effort and using it to combat the enemies of mankind. Because, regardless of the light/dark spectrum those enemies would still wish to eradicate/subjugate humanity. Heck if done correctly that allows avenues for more classes, different game modes, different game balancing aspects, new subtype damage. Imagine rift being light/dark. Instead of just dunks and point tallying, you instead go for your teams "attunement" to that element.(Which of course could be fueled by more than just kills and runs) Control literally becomes a battle of light versus dark. Which entity is controlling more area. Buffs can be added in for staying inside the control area of your alignment and defending; whilst attacking or capturing an enemy zone you get a bit of a debuff. The zone is literally combating you as an entity of the opposing element. Of course to pull all of that off... balancing would have to be on point, and we all know how that works around here. Would still be cool to see. Any other brainstorms? Maybe someone up at Bungie will read this and get some creative juices flowing on it. Highly unlikely but if there is one thing clear with this game, you have to have some hope.

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    • I'm sorry dear, neither Eris or Toland ever used the darkness. They manipulated hive rituals, hive and darkness are not the same thing. Dredgen Yor was too afraid to stand against the darkness so fell to his own proxy darkness. He never communed with it but he was tainted by it.

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      • There is more to Light and Darkness than just law, knowledge, and conquest. The Darkness is selfish; it wants to smother [i]everything[/i], so that only the "strong" survive. To be "strong", you must be selfish. There is no place for love or compassion or mercy. They'll just get in the way. Even Oryx's "family" knew that, to get ahead, they'd slaughter every last family member. The Light, in contrast, encourages love, compassion, and mercy. They care for the weak, for the weak will one day be strong. They find strength in unity. They find strength in righteousness. If we were the ones invading Hive, Fallen, etc. territory, then I would agree. However, the Darkness attacked first. Guardians are only the Light's retaliation. We aren't here to plunder and conquer. We're here to take back our home, our worlds. We're not fighting. We're fighting [i]back[/i].

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        • You can use all these 'justifications' from Oryx, Toland and from whomever you choose to believe, but matter of the fact is that Guardians do what they do to protect humanity's last hope and innocent lives. Sure, we attack before things become a threat and sure we're "dead things made by a dead god and all we do is kill", but why? Because we were attacked first. No one told Oryx to send his brood to murder us, take our moon and our planets. No one told the Fallen to attack our system and pillage everything, no one told the Cabal Empire to go offensive on us; we're defending ourselves and our Solar system, our home. So whatever Oryx, Toland, Yor or anyone believes about us being the Darkness, the evil, the wrong doers are blind and blatantly wrong.

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          • Creepy. So who are the real good guys? Are there any?

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            • Not this again... No, we are not the Darkness. Were humans supposed to roll over and let the Darkness kill them all? No! They fought back, and like anyone who is desperate maybe did some bad things. But the Darkness is the force which attacks us. Oryx states it several times in the Book of Sorrows (a very nice and informative read.)

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            • Hoo. That's deep

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            • Biggest problem i have with the gamelore is that every guardian we play with is the same guardian. we all have the same ghost and we were resurected on the same exact place and We all followed the same fate but. Is this the confirmation that we are in a vex simulation? And multiple guardian being spawned on the same place is a glitch in the system or would it be intended. If we wouldnt be able to play with "ourselfes"(insert lenny face) with who did we do the raid. [spoiler] sorry if my grammar is bad in this post my bad. I have multiple reasons why my grammar can be bad[/spoiler]

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              • This will help new Guardians prepare for the long dark... [spoiler]House Scar honors you, champion![/spoiler]

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                • [i]Do you want to see darkness?[/i]

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                  • Nope.

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                  • Just because we fight our enemies doesn't make us dark. It's called self defense. They attacked first and we fought back and went to reclaim what once belonged to us. If we say went out of our way to conquer the cabal empire and wipe out the fallen and hive then yes we are dark. But we aren't trying to do that. We are trying reclaim our stuff. Nothing wrong with that.

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                    • Edited by MinkfordBrimley: 12/21/2016 3:52:44 PM
                      What people must remember when discussing the lore of Destiny is that good and evil are highly subjective, even in this game. People see accounts by the Fallen or the card you cited at the end and see that as the be-all end-all proof that we are evil. This simply isn't the case. Of course our enemies would think this about us, that's why we are enemies. While the Fallen may cite us as murderers, we have to remember what happened/would happen to innocent people when the Fallen come into play. This is just a cycle of killing, we kill them for who they killed because of us. Would you look at the Hive, a race who slaughtered and wiped out countless races, and think that we are "evil" for destroying them? Perhaps they would, but we certainly would not. (Well researched post regardless of my opinion, nice job)

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                    • The Fallen were blessed with the light of the Traveler...but then just kicked to the curb as they scavenge and claw their way back to claim the Traveler as their own. The Hive are like wild animals that fully know what they are and have no hesitation on their motives. The Cabal...we honestly don't know what their deal is except they are a military galactic force that jumps in to fight us here and there. The Vex are similar to the Hive, but act entirely as a collective mind that can manifest itself through time aiming for a future where they rule/exist? The Guardians...Us...we just put a stop to anything that threatens our existence or the Traveler's. We don't grow in our existence, we just preserve what we have left. I would be curious if we stray into Darkness in the sequel.

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                    • Edited by emp strqnding: 12/21/2016 2:23:56 PM
                      [quote]We assault our enemies before they can become a threat. We conqure our enemy's territories and slaughter them. Every time we get better gear, find a new powerful exotic, upgrade our subclass, it's just to allow us to kill our enemies [/quote] This is true (except the first bit, our enemies are massive threats, that's why we're assaulting them) but it doesn't make us dark. We're fighting the dark, our morals are completely different from theirs. The darkness purges the weak, their philosophy sees them as useless if they can't kill or take for the cause. We protect the weak and give them a home. [spoiler][i]Darkness 3[/i] Of course, it might be that there was another country, with other queens, and in this country they sat down together and made one law and one tower and one army to guard their borders. This is the dream of small minds: a gentle place ringed in spears. But I do not think those spears will hold against the queen of the country of armies. And that is all that will matter in the end.[/spoiler] Toland's criticism doesn't apply to us. Our conquests that you mention prove that we aren't a wall of spears trying to hide.

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                      • Edited by LadyBladedBlack: 12/21/2016 9:13:21 PM
                        We were long dead and were brought back to life through another's will. Does that not take us out of the running for being dark? The Darkness caters to the strong, but we are technically not strong. We are instruments of Light like the Taken are for Oryx with the exception that we still have wills of our own. We have one goal in mind and that is to protect humanity and of course the Traveller. We do whatever we need to do to to get that done, but little more than that. If we were dark, we wouldn't stop until there was not even a hint of a threat anymore. Period. But to say we have nothing in common with the Darkness would be a lie. Light and Darkness go hand in hand for a reason.

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                      • Books of sorrow debunks this

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                      • This isn't a "Traveler is evil" post, so then what is it? Either way, you put a lot of effort here, and it shows. Pretty good arguments.

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                      • Atoms didn't defeat the broth, they were created from, and by the broth.

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                      • *cough* Game Theorists *cough*

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                        • I just got the quest for year three Thorn. Gonna finish it tomorrow. Toland made a good gun out of the darkness at least.

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                          • Technically, on the basest level, everything is playing the Darkness' game. Regardless of the reason, we kill things weaker than ourselves and become more powerful. Killing Oryx didn't really deny his philosophy, it only proved that our "Shape" was better than his. But we use Light to do it and the narrative sorta implies we're heroic so we're not dark

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                            • All about perspective. We may be the true darkness compared to those we annihilate, but we serve to protect not just the Traveler, but the [i]City[/i].

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