But engineers were desined by forerunners to be impervious to flood even though they were organic but they are inorganic enough not to be destroyed by the Halo firing

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JABBERWOCK xeno Those Bomber forms from Halo Wars looked awfully like Hugarok too...[/quote]And we were told they weren't engineers which is confusing the hell outta me.

I'd say it's likely. We know that the flood can at least influence AI's, whereas and engineer is a synthetic organism that presumbly is composed of cells, tissues, organs etc in the same way other life, so it seems probable that they chould be infected. Those Bomber forms from Halo Wars looked awfully like Hugarok too...

I would assume that because they were not destroyed by the activation of the halo's the Engineers do not have sufficient biomass to be infected by the flood. I would also think that this is by design rather than coincidence.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] kippa I think if we gave the Flood a little bit of time, they would adapt into being able to infect Hunters. I think that was more of a gameplay 'thing' than an actual 'lore' thing.[/quote] How would that work considering that a Hunter is made of lekgolo worms for them to be infected the flood would need to infect a large number of the worms. Now a better question would be why not infect jackels, grunts, and drones? Ohh and why couldn't we have had [url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Shielded_Carrier_Form]this[/url]?

What? Which part were those Engineers on? I remember seeing them once, and they looked normal.

I believe that they can be infected, because they have a central nervous system, and that is pretty much what is needed for a Flood spore to infect its victim. To those who say that Engineers are synthetic, they are more organic than AIs, and AIs like Cortana and 2401 were captured by the Gravemind. He then somehow 'connected' with them. Engineers probably can be infected, just that we don't see them as the Flood uses them as food, or simply as extra 'brain food' for the Gravemind to consume in order to gain information. Also, an organism might be synthetic but still be a 100% organic being. They might be synthetic as they were created by the Forerunners, but who is to say that the Forerunners didn't synthesise something organic? Because they were synthesised, the Forerunners probably engineered them to near complete efficiency, which explains the absence of internal organs and the strange way they reproduce. Not to mention the ease at which they manipulate electronics and machinery.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Emperor Rudd If legends is canon does that mean spartan 1337 is canon?[/quote] That was the only episode that isn't canon

If legends is canon does that mean spartan 1337 is canon?

engineers cant be infected because they lack the strength to survive being taken over and it was said that jackals couldnt be taken over because they were too thin and had weak bones. since engineers have no bones they would die before being infected

I think if we gave the Flood a little bit of time, they would adapt into being able to infect Hunters. I think that was more of a gameplay 'thing' than an actual 'lore' thing.

I believe it'd be possible... or should be, anyway. As an infection form, no. With spores, however... it should be possible, regardless of biomass.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 Can you explain how though? If they can be infected by the flood why didn't halo kill them? Or had the flood never infected an engineer during the war with the forerunners, thus the forerunners assume they couldn't be infected due to being artificial in nature?[/quote] There are multiple explanations around all of this. For one, the Forerunner could've had Engineers on the Ark and then simply re-seeded their facilities with them (or at least a few of their facilities) before leaving this arm of the galaxy. The Engineers could be artificial enough to prevent the array from affecting their nervous system, or they could've been structured specifically so it wouldn't for whatever reason. Spores, of course, could be the cause for Engineer infection if an Infection form could not directly take control of one.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lord Snakie As to if they can be infected or not, no direct canon material states that they cannot, and canon material shows that they can. Both within the universe of my own theory and within the lore we currently know, their infection is supported. Regardless of the way you look at it, Engineers being infect-able seems extremely solid.[/quote] Can you explain how though? If they can be infected by the flood why didn't halo kill them? Or had the flood never infected an engineer during the war with the forerunners, thus the forerunners assume they couldn't be infected due to being artificial in nature?

Engineers are really like the Forerunner's own EI, but on a much less dangerous and on a much less advanced scale compared to the Flood of my own theory. Personally, I think that the Engineers might have Precursor origin (again, assuming my theory is correct) or might have hinted that the Forerunner were advancing (back?) to a Tier 0 race; they could already exit the galaxy at least to an extent (the Ark) and the Engineers appear to be an engineered life-form. I think the Forerunner were headed up either way. As to if they can be infected or not, no direct canon material states that they cannot, and canon material shows that they can. Both within the universe of my own theory and within the lore we currently know, their infection is supported. Regardless of the way you look at it, Engineers being infect-able seems extremely solid.

It is an interesting question. First off, can it be controlled by an infectious form? I say no. The Halos targeted all sentient organisms that could support the Flood. Seeing as how the Engineers weren't killed we can guess one thing: 1. There nervous system is sufficiently different enough than that of other organisms that the Halo effect did not interact with it due to it not meeting a certain set of parameters. So for example let's say that the nervous system of every organism in the galaxy communicates at the "A" frequency. The Halo effect targets this some how, and the Engineers escape because there nervous system uses a different frequency. Now does this mean that the Flood are compatible with the Huragok? It seems from there biology that they [i]do[/i] contain living tissue seeing as how the bleed, reproduce etc. The Flood could always adapt to there different nervous system. This would explain why at first they just killed Huragok, and later on seem to be able to infect them.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Guscon Engineers are synthetic lifeforms. They exhibit many 'organic' traits, but their makeup is sufficiently different, sufficiently more 'machine' to render them incapable of standard infection from 'regular' flood. To infect them requires something more intelligent and logical than organo-chemical spore action. This is possible through the Gravemind. The Gravemind, being a sapient and seemingly highly intelligent creature, has the required tools to interact with and to control/reprogram/infect Engineers, in much the same way that he can infect and control AI constructs. In short, the infection of an Engineer, being a synthetic lifeform, requires a certain intelligence above the average flood spore. This intelligence is supplied by the Gravemind. How's that sound?[/quote] That sounds wonderful.

just use the borg to kill the flood *sesh*

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Swamptik Engineers are in essence, advanced machines. While they are semi-sentient, they are made of machinery. The answer is no. [/quote] How were they infected in legends then? thats what i am trying to understand. I proposed years ago that the flood are able to infect more complex and advanced lifeforms as the infestation spreads. this seems to go in to with that idea seeing how the gravemind was able to "connect" with cortana and seeing how a gravemind was around when the engineers were infected.[/quote] It could be that the gravemind got access to a forerunner device that could control engineers. I just can't see how they could get infected though. It's non-organic. An infection form shouldn't be able to do anything to them.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Swamptik Engineers are in essence, advanced machines. While they are semi-sentient, they are made of machinery. The answer is no. [/quote] How were they infected in legends then? thats what i am trying to understand. I proposed years ago that the flood are able to infect more complex and advanced lifeforms as the infestation spreads. this seems to go in to with that idea seeing how the gravemind was able to "connect" with cortana and seeing how a gravemind was around when the engineers were infected. [Edited on 05.24.2010 10:46 AM PDT]

I don't think so. Don't the flood basically change their DNA to match their hosts nervous system or something? Well, the engineers can't have DNA, they don't even reproduce in any biological way, so it would be useless. I'd also imagine that the engineers were designed with this in mind, and probably have defenses from flood assimilation. Maybe even as far as harmful defenses, like being able to send an electrical shock up it's "spine" to get the flood form attached to it off.

Engineers are in essence, advanced machines. While they are semi-sentient, they are made of machinery. The answer is no.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] kippa This is an interesting question. The most we hear about Engineers is in Contact Harvest, specifically Light than Some. Just reading through it, it seems he has a stomach. Although that is countered in the Halopedia article I was just reading which states firstly that the Huragok were created by the Forerunner, which is cited to the Bestiarum. It then says: [quote]Being mechanical structures rather than true life forms, they survived the activation and were later found by the Prophets in various M-Series facilities[/quote] Which is in need of citation. [b] I believed that was already said from an official source becuase i remember reading it personally. It is years old but i believe it was stated in Bestiarum[/b] It also says that they have no true tissue or organs (which is apparently not true, in Contact Harvest, Dadab says the word 'stomach' when explaining how [i]Lighter than Some[/i] was producing methane in their escape pod. [quote][i]Dadab[/i] watched the thick brown sludge surge up its snout and down its spine in tight, peristalic knots[/quote] [b] you have to understand that Dadab is a grunt and has no knowledge of the anatomy of the engineers. So he uses the word "stomach" becuase that is the only word he knows to describe what he believes to be the stomach. Similar to ancient civilizations using the word "bird" to describe apparent aliens flying in the sky. If i remember correctly the Bestiarum c;early states that the engineers are made up of nanomachines that mimic tissues and organs. So it would ether be a typo by using the word spine, or they have something similar to one.[/b] So according to Joseph Staten, they seem to have a central nervous system, and seeing as [i]Lighter than Some[/i] experiences pain, we can assume a peripheral nervous system also. I haven't heard of them being of Forerunner creation before, but if they were, then they could have been designed to withstand Flood attacks (if Forerunner were engaging Flood at that time). [b] Again the Bestiarum clearly states that they are of forerunner design and the nano machines would make something similar to a nervous system (which i am sure the flood could hack at higher levels of infestation).[/b] Also, the nature of the Flood, and the nature of the Huragok. They are both seemingly organic, yet have seemless integration with technology. It seems to me possible that regardless of 'true tissue' (as Halopedia says), the fact Huragok have a spine would enable Flood to still take Huragok knowledge via, what I'm going to call, "Tentacle Integration", or splitting the skin behind the spine and taking over the brain or mind. Halopedia and Contact Harvest are having a few issues here. I'm obviously leaning towards Contact Harvest being 'righter'. But yeah, those are basically my sources. [/quote] [Edited on 05.24.2010 9:39 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Guscon This is possible through the Gravemind. The Gravemind, being a sapient and seemingly highly intelligent creature, has the required tools to interact with and to control/reprogram/infect Engineers, in much the same way that he can infect and control AI constructs. In short, the infection of an Engineer, being a synthetic lifeform, requires a certain intelligence above the average flood spore. This intelligence is supplied by the Gravemind. How's that sound?[/quote] that would support what i had proposed during Iris. That as the flood evolve they are able to infect more complex lifeforms. Which could then explain the infected grunts and jackals from halowars if you are really taking that gameplay element to canon.

I guess it depends on what is meant by 'infection'. Being consumed by, and then spreading the Flood, or being controlled by the Gravemind.