Firstly, let me preface this by saying that I play a hell of a lot of PvP. I've seen it all: from the auto rifle meta through the hand cannon meta, the pulse meta and the shotgun meta. I believe I am therefore in a reasonably good spot to discuss changes I'd like.
1.1 - Hand Cannons
These guns really don't need very much adjustment. Removing Bloom completely would make them far too accurate and allow potential cleanup kills from an extreme distance. Therefore, I propose that bloom be reduced to an auto rifle level: it can consistently hit to mid range but then becomes less accurate.
EDIT: Hand cannons' max possible range for full damage is 38.5m (the vendor Palindrome has the best range roll possible, and this is the distance at which it hits for max,) but ghost-bullet range is around 18-20m (hard to measure, as their nature makes them inconsistent.) Simplified, the accuracy measurement on a gun is the cone of the bullets: on the Palindrome with Rangefinder and Rifled, the diameter of the range cone at approx. 20m is approximately 115% the size of a Guardian's head. Given that this is purely algebraic, we can give the cross-sectional width of the guardian's head as, arbitrarily, 40cm. We can then work out the cross-sectional area (pi*r*r) and this gives an area of 1260cm squared (to 3sf.) Given the accuracy cone at 20m is approximately 1.3x the size of a guardian's head, d=1.15*40=46 and pi*r*r gives us an area of 1660 (3sf as before.) Therefore, each bullet has a 1260/1660, or approximately 2/3 chance of hitting. This is pretty appalling. The accuracy cone here should be more like 1320cm squared, or 93% chance of hitting. Just thought it wise to put a mathematical explanation up. The accuracy curve should also be simple, increasing the cross-sectional area of the cone by 10% for each 10m more.
- Reduce bloom to give a 90% chance of hitting at 20m
- Increase damage to max-impact hand cannons by 1% (to 96 crits.)
1.2 - Scout Rifles
As before, these guns have never been completely dominant but have always been solid and dependable. At the moment, MIDA is overused (but DEFINITELY not overpowered) because of its huge aim assist value of 95, so that could be pegged back slightly to provide more variety. Boolean Gemini needs a buff as well, as it is very underused.
- Reduce aim assist of MIDA Multi-Tool to 85
- Increase base scout rifle aim assist by 10%
- Combine the two exotic perks of the Gemini into one
1.3 - Pulse Rifles
The Clever Dragon is currently touted as the best weapon in the game, with cries of Bungo Plz Nerf coming from certain quarters. Instead, this should be the benchmark for pulse rifle TTK. However, this archetype is a bit strong at very long range, so range dropoff should be decreased slightly.
- Reduce range falloff of max- and Hawksaw archetype- pulse rifles by 5%
- Increase damage of Hawksaw-archetype pulse rifles by 4% (to 26 crits)
- Increase damage of mid-RoF pulse rifles by 3% (to 31 crits)
- Increase base aim assist of mid-RoF pulse rifles by 10%
- Increase damage of low-RoF pulse rifles by 9% (to 37 crits)
1.4 - Auto Rifles
The worst Primary class at the moment, undeniably. Mid- and low- RoF auto rifles are simply punishing to use because of their low TTKs. Low-RoF auto rifles kill in 8 crits minimum, 5 frames above high-RoF auto rifles. Mid-RoF auto rifles kill in 10 crits minimum, 3 frames above high-RoF auto rifles. Therefore, I suggest the following:
- Increase critical multiplier to 1.4x (from 1.25x)
- Increase base damage of low-RoF auto rifles by 7% (to 27 crits)
- Increase base damage of mid-RoF auto rifles by 10% (to 22 crits)
- Increase base stability of mid- and low-RoF auto rifles by 5%
2.0 - Shotguns
No changes needed. They were balanced post-April Update, primaries were nerfed, they are now overused.
2.1 - Sniper Rifles
These are not great right now: the Telesto currently has more total kills than the top sniper rifle (1KYS.) Some changes must be reversed.
- Increase scope-in speed by 1 frame
- Buff Quickdraw and Snapshot to Year 1 status
- Decrease flinch value by 10%
- Unflinching should grant a 25% flinch reduction, up from 15%
2.2 - Fusion Rifles
Simple changes: these are careful buffs that are needed, to ensure that they are not stupid-OP like the Vanilla meta.
- Decrease maximum recoil spread by 10%
2.3 - Sidearms
They are fine as they are, except the unreasonable Queen's Choice nerf.
- Revert max-impact sidearm damage to pre-September levels
3.0 - Heavy
Grenades and Horseshoes continues to be nerfed, please stop it.
- Increase Grenades and Horseshoes blast radius by 0.75 metres
Any feedback on these prospective changes would be much appreciated.
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8 RepliesI disagree with the low RoF autos and the hawksaw type PRs are fine as they are don;t need to be touched other are fine. Also you are asking for them to reverse the nerf to snipers which doesn't need to happen in any way aside from maybe a increase to reserve ammo. HC 90% bloom reduction I would prefer 50% as I think that you should be required to pace your shots o suffer poor performance I think scouts and all precision weapons needs to have this so you can't just spam trigger to win. Autos need to just trump scouts and pulses in close range but I think they should ALWAYS lose and longer ranges so boost damage moderately but have harsh drop off at range to a point of no damage.
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2 RepliesThis is well thought out and I agree with most of your statements. Your good sense and experience both show. The range of hand cannons has no correlation with real life. If shotguns are overused, it is because you can one-shot someone from an unrealistic range. Again, there is no correlation with real life. I stopped using the MIDA because it just isn't dependable in a lot of situations anymore. I do not agree with any additional modifications to its stats that cause it to be less effective. I have the Dragon and use the HopScotch. The Dragon just doesn't have enough ammunition to win a fight with two guardians. You get one and die by the hand of the other while trying to reload. People are using mod controllers to make the dragon fire automatic. That does result in fast kills, but again, they will not have enough ammo to take down a second guardian. Thanks for the information.
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63 RepliesSeriously? No shotgun nerf huh? I guess we all know what your primary is. They obviously need a nerf. The ttk is too high to counter them. Reducing the ttk will ruin the game. So shotguns need a MASSIVE NERF.
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I like almost everything. I feel like the Clever Dragon and GoM kill a little too fast considering how spammy they are. I would prefer to balance around the Hawksaw archetype.
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Not bad but autos would be very powerful which is fine for me, I miss my suros regime.......
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I agree with all of this. I hope the Devs see this.
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Autorifles need help, think about it. How many use one in a strike or raid with much success? Not many. The same applies in pvp for the same reasons. Bungie should try a little to be realistic. Anyone know tje average range of an m16? Just saying. Handcannons same, I mean the same damb problem. Up the mag size to 12 give them 50% of the range of scout rifle. The paladrome shows us what HC should start to be like but not enough. Pulse leave em but mid and high impact still neef a buff. I would decrease the time between burst fire. Shotguns are fine,BUT I agree the less impact it has the better the range as it stands all but highest impact shottys can be useful the rest are a waste of time. Change it. Mida needs its flinch back, I no longer consider it worth the exotic slot, the 701x will crush most anyway. But scouts seem about right and im sure most of us use them for pve and pvp if the map supports them. Fusion are hit or miss in pvp, but I find them better than shottys in pve. Heavy, horseshoes needs a buff. Galahorn, needs a buff. You know when solarburn is in effect? Thats how it should hit all the time.
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3 RepliesI agree with everything except hand cannons. They should have zero bloom and instead have a severe damage drop off in damage at range . Let's say a hand-cannon dose 86 crit at 20m and at 21m it dose 43 crit . A drop off in damage this severe will balance the hand-cannons. Bloom =rng kills Tell me what you think as I want destiny to be as balanced as possible . I love destiny , leave me feedback on my post
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2 RepliesI can't help but think ur logic is no better than the bungie most recent weapon patch logic (ie mida nerf) thank you tho for not mentioning. Nerf to shotguns
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Nice ideas, im glad someone actually thinks about their ideas.
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1 ReplyI wonder if Mercules904 knows you are ganking his "massive breakdown" tagline.
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5 RepliesRangefinder needs to be removed from shotguns all together. Flinching is fine on snipers.
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12 RepliesLove how everything has something but shotguns , looked at the OP stats and sure enough his primary is a shotgun .
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sorry but anything above .99 for auto rifles would break the game.
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3 RepliesEdited by samuelepo: 11/11/2016 8:00:57 PMFirst:Why Nerf fusion rifle? I think they just need a slight buff to the Speed of bullets. Second:Mida is maybe the only balanced weapon in the game, and the thing that makes it different from the other same archetype SRs is its aim assist. DO NOT Nerf Mida, it's balanced. Third: Sniper flinch is ok, I don't want another spawn kill from the other part of the map meta(it was worse than the actual shotgun meta). Beyond this, Agree.
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1 Replyonly thing i diagree with is sniper flinch... i do think that unflinching should do more for you but i don't think the current flinch values need a flat decrease across the board i think instead that damage falloff should take part in how much flinch happens ex. hand cannon from long range shouldn't flinch a sniper
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Sounds good. Bump.
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Bump. Make primaries great again!
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Great breakdown. I look forward to seeing this in game at some point.
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very similar to what I proposed! We should compare https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/217713415
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3 RepliesI didn't read this after shotguns.. LOL
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I love this
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9 RepliesSorry bro, there is a range nerf in there. Downvote