Lol I saw that video. Laughed myself too. Buff snipers somehow fixes shotguns. Aka there should be more snipers. What most people don't realize. In any fps, snipers should not make up the majority or even half the team. Snipers are literally meant to be played by like 1 or 2 max on a team. In trials, traditionally there should only be 1 sniper. What destiny -blam!-s up in balance, is just this. You can have a full team of snipers or full team of shotgunner and still obliterate a well balanced and diverse team if you're slightly better than them. They -blam!- up alot more in balance than just the diversity per team. Like auto rifles. Lol. What a joke.

I was pleasantly surprised by TV's video. Finally there is some insightful weapon feedback from the people whose opinions carry the most weight in the developers' decisions.

[quote]So I just saw a video linked on the feedback forums (and no I am not going to re-link their video here) from a prominent YouTuber discussing Weapon balance. The video had 50k views and as we all are painfully aware, YouTuber/streamer view numbers+ their asking for whatever they don't like to be nerfed= gameplay being jacked for everyone else to fit their whims So back to the video, their discussion on "weapon balance" was about them not liking dying to shotguns... Their first point was that they're everywhere in PvP now. True, but then the introduction of Supremacy and players converging at close range for crests lends to that and for all the bitching (and I'm a fusion user btw), shotguns have always been weapons that require you to be [i]too close[/i] to your opponent. Yes they are very good [i]inside their intended range[/i], but they're literally the only weapon in the game that has always worked properly. Now whether anyone or the streamer agree to that is fine to debate, but here's where opinions of select individuals driving balance because of their view numbers gets completely fubar The solution to the "shotgun problem" in their opinion was, and I kid you not, to buff snipers. And not just to buff them, but to buff their CQC ability. [b]SNIPERS[/b] If shotguns are a problem because they work at their intended range, how exactly is making snipers back into the broken CQC, un-counterable at any range weapons they were in TTK a fix or improvement? And we (or at least those of us who are you know, sane) all know that suggestion is garbage. But the problem is that Bungie have repeatedly shown that they're willing to do pretty much whatever the streamers want in order to keep them streaming and generating that game publicity. The fact is that the increased % of shotgun kills isn't because they can't be countered, it's because more players are using them. So when they get nerfed again and snipers are returned to the best melee range attack in the game, thank the streamers and YouTubers and Bungie for caving again to their whims rather than actual weapon performance statistics.[/quote] Hahahaha! I love when people talk s**t about how OP snipers are/could be or have been in Destiny. They've never been over powered, are currently under-powered and even with a buff to snipers they would still require the player to have skill. The reason shotguns are so ubiquitous is [u][i][b]BECAUSE THEY'RE EASY TO USE.[/b][/i][/u] Buff the f**k out of snipers and you will still see 75% of current shotgun users REMAIN shotgun users. This is a game; it's meant to be fun. Shotguns aren't fun for everyone. I love sniping but I used shotguns recently in Trials for obvious reasons. Even with a buff to snipers there are many, many caveats to sniping in Destiny... Nades are everywhere. Shotguns bumrush constantly. Reticle-kick is bad. Real bad. Sniper shots don't always register. If you miss you're probably f**ked. No-scoping isn't reliable (never has been). Mobility in Destiny is crazy. Sniping leaves you standing still. You lose radar in-scope. Switching weapons is slow. Good perk rolls are rare. High impact snipers only have 3 rounds. Even an upper bodyshot isn't a kill. In close range you're better off with literally ANY other gun. Nothing they buff on snipers could make them bad enough that you'd have a legitimate argument. You're just bitching about a buff that will probably never happen. And most likely because you [u][i]CAN'T[/i][/u] snipe (notice I didn't say WON'T snipe). Git gud.

I don't understand why so many people think buffing snipers is such a ridiculous idea. I also don't appreciate you twisting the words of TrueVanguard (yes, I can see who you're referring to) by saying that snipers need a buff to be able to snipe shotguns. That's not what his point was. TV wanted snipers to be buffed so that they are a more viable option than shotguns are, because they are very much outclassed by shotguns right now. Yes, I've heard countless times how "shotguns have been nerfed 9 times" but that doesn't seem to keep them from being more effective than snipers right now, does it? Shotguns are a big issue right now, and a change like this would really help make the Crucible less of a shotgun fest.

It's not so much the streamers and youtubers that anyone needs to be worried about, it's the opinion less person who follows them and suddenly adopts their opinion and goes to reddit and here and spews it as their own. Copycat cultists. There are far more players who are successful and don't watch that garbage. Each change Bungie implements the gamer adapts and probably doesn't even notice when it comes to nerfing and buffing. They play how they want. It's only when you get into the reward system does it really matter because no one wants to play repeatedly and not feel some progression and reward for their time.

Exactly, there is a difference between OP and over used. Once they nerf shotguns, something else will be over used. Continuous circle.

Mrs 5000 watts used to be the only streamer i watched, i repected her bravery to enter the community and stick around despite harrasment But she has gotten on my nerves with her deception She called shotguning in ttk playing the meta... if it was meta then..... Those kind of lies lead the mass nerf mobs

The effective kill range on shotguns should have always stayed at the level of Found Verdict imo. Also a big part of the problem is the tight map design with alot of flanking routes, doors and corners. Sidearm is a viable counter shotgun weapon, but it often runs out of ammo very fast. Increase the ammo on pickup by atleast 50% and decrease the ammo pickup for Shotguns by 30%. Dont nerf anything please, but rather just limit the ammo and increase the ammo for weapons that can counter them such as sidearms.

Year one players cried over exotic primarys and some legendary weapons being OP. Bungie responded with nerfs based on the ENTIRE weapon class. In essence the player base crying NERF created this situation we are in today. Bungie is willing to comply cause it forces players to start grinding all over again thus extending game time, without extending yhe game. About 90% of nerf posts feed into this. Stop crying about what the other person was using or doing. Worry about what you can do to stop it. Yes everything in this game can be countered, always could be. Just no one wanted to look for them. Just wanted instant gratification.

"The video had 50k views and as we all are painfully aware, YouTuber/streamer view numbers+ their asking for whatever they don't like to be nerfed= gameplay being jacked for everyone else to fit their whims." If a YouTube video is getting 50K views then the content creator more than likely is someone who's opinion is valued by a significant portion of the player base, hence why Bungie is going to listen to them. The perception that shotguns are a problem in Crucible is not new, the forums have been saying this for roughly a month already. Youtubers/ Streamers tend to let the dust settle on a issue before speaking on it to ensure that they take the position that alienates the least amount of their viewers as possible.

More players are using them because of the new game mode (Supremacy) and a Year 3 map design ethic that has returned to favoring CQC. Agree. The only problem Lost, is that you don't treat rationalizations as if they are reasoned, principled arguments. Content creators are small business-owners who are masquerading as "typical gamers". The fact is that the vast majority of them will simply argue whatever is in the best intrests of their business...and then claim that its for the "good of the game". Briar Rabbit put out video yesterday that was so self-serving, that I simply had to turn it off. Mtashed put one out going on and on about how a "refresh" was going to be "so good for the game"...that I not only turned it off.... I down-voted it. Which I almost never do. Why should I have to lose 3 years worth of investment in my character because some YouTuber has turned plyaing this game into a -blam!-ing JOB...and is now burnt out on it?

Honestlu bro, at this point, they need to just scrap every change they've made and start over. Whether you favor shotties or snipes, its stupid that most kills in pvp are by specials. Seeing dingleberries hop around the map only using a shotgun, eating primary shots, is lame as hell. Seeing a multiple dingleberries hard scoping lanes is just as lame. Primary weapons should be the "primary" weapons used. Specials should never get more kills in pvp than primaries.That alone, should show how broken pvp in destiny really is. Everyone has just come to except how bass-akwards the weapon hierarchy in destiny is. I have friends that literally go entire matches only using their special. Not a single primary weapon fired. How the hell is that acceptable? I've been playing since the beta, and I truly hate what the pvp in destiny has become.