[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HaloFanatic2040 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] me greater you People who think its a glitch are mentally challenged. Unfortunately this specific forum is made up almost exclusively of retards.[/quote] That is not very nice dude. anyway, to the topic, I would say it takes more skill to run a flag across the entire map at a slower speed than to just press two buttons to move faster and make a really -blam!- annoying "Flag dropped, Flag Taken,(Or Stolen) Flag Dropped, Flage Taken, Flag Dropped, Flag Taken, Flag Dropped, Flag Taken, Flag Dropped, Flag Taken, Flag Dropped, Flag Taken, Flag Captured."[/quote] Flag Juggling in itself is a skill. Not anybody can perform said action quickly and effectively. There is a huge skill gap when it comes to flag juggling which shows how much skill it takes. Compare your flag juggle to a Major League Gaming professional player who can toss it twice as far as you, promotes skill while still maintains a balanced game. [/quote] I [i] really [/i] don't want to start a fight, but now I see it. You're just an overly-competetive MLG-tryhard who thinks that if MLG does it, it's pro. Flag Juggling was nooby. A pro would be able to get the flag back to base without juggling. Saying that flag juggling made the game balanced is completely stupid.

It was an exploit because Bungie intended for the Flag Carrier to be SLOWER than other plays so that the defending team had a chance to get their flag back. Flag Juggling made the Flag Carrier FASTER. That was NOT intended. And the thing that irks me, is that everyone looks up to MLG. MLG used Flag Juggling. So the community thought it was pro. It was NOT pro. Juggling made you a noob.

First off I am strongly against flag juggling. I can flag juggle almost like a pro. My record sucks cause I let everyone play on it. And it was in the Reach Beta. The problem for me with juggling is that if the offensive team is able to juggle your flag behind cover. They more often then not get the point. Because a juggler moves just as fast as a player. Bungie said the would write some code that said. If you try to juggle the flag your base speed will remain reduced for a second or so. The problem was that if someone engaged you while you had the flag, you are able to drop it and go into a regular speed strafe. Tbh I'm not sure if they can remove flag juggling. So in conclusion I think flag juggling is silly and should be removed. However I do understand it takes skill to do and more skill to do efficiently. But I mean seriously, that's not how you cap a flag. You run it while your teammates protect you. Not the fastest runner/jumper makes a B Line for the flag and run it back.

I agree with many in saying that flag-juggling is not a glitch; however, to the people saying that its a skill don't deserve to comment. Flag-juggling is one of the cheapest and easiest moves to pull off in Halo. Even though it could be pulled off in Halo:CE, when playing in a lan party, it was more fun working as a team to secure the enemy flag in CTF... It created a lot of intense nail-biter, close call matches. The flag carrier was always bound by the flag and always had to either rely on stealth and flag melee, combined with team support to be victorious. Longest CTF match in running for me is still 2+ hours long in college, playing on Blood Gulch... zero flag juggling. *sigh... good times. [Edited on 07.20.2010 5:51 AM PDT]

[quote]>'Allows the game to be played like it was intended.[/quote] That just says it all...Lets play CTF like it was intended to be played like. PS: I don't think it's a glitch. Regards P17 [Edited on 07.20.2010 5:45 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gyohdon [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RogueWolf I77V #1 It's extreamly annoying [/quote] HAI GUISE IM MISTAR BOTTON WEN YO PRES MI, THE SOUND GOSE OFF PORBLME FIXDDDD -blam!- morons, mute the damn game. Also, those that say it takes skill to do ANYTHING in a game is much to proud he has been pressing buttons so much he can simulate the firing of a gun on his tv. Because THAT takes skill.[/quote] sooooo.......i should lose all the other sound of a game,console,tv,and sound system that ive invested thousands of dollars in because you want to flag juggle? who is the moron?

It doesn't take skill to flag juggle, it just takes a lot of [RB] and (B) presses. Also, you said it takes skill to ninja-sneak your way back to base, it doesn't matter if the enemy are expecting it or not, if your enemy can't find you then they can't find you (expecting you to be stealthy doesn't change anything). And there are other tactics such as getting in vehicles with the flag (passenger or driver if flag driving is enabled). And you can turn on AAs while you have the flag in customs allowing for more ways to get the flag to base and more ways to get to the enemy's flag in the first place. This also provides more ways for the flag carrier to be killed of course, making it more skilful either way. And I think we should probably trust Bungie anyway but that's not really much of a point.

I miss it :(

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RogueWolf I77V #1 It's extreamly annoying [/quote] HAI GUISE IM MISTAR BOTTON WEN YO PRES MI, THE SOUND GOSE OFF PORBLME FIXDDDD -blam!- morons, mute the damn game. Also, those that say it takes skill to do ANYTHING in a game is much to proud he has been pressing buttons so much he can simulate the firing of a gun on his tv. Because THAT takes skill. [Edited on 07.20.2010 5:37 AM PDT]

They could fix flag juggling by making it so you can't pick up the flag over 3 times in the space of 15 seconds.

if you were carrying a flag pole in real life, would throwing it foward and picking it back up give you an advantage over the guys chasing you? wouldn't you run a bit slower with the flag? this is what bungie intended to happen in the game to make it more realistic. if you perform an action that results in an unintended result by the designer, then its a glitch by defenition. this glitch however was not a "huge" problem, and fixing it evidently was a bit more problematic then we all realize. ive allways...ALLWAYS...hated flag juggling, and ive never used the tactic in a game. throwing the flag ahead to a teammate is,obviously, acceptable. my .02

Im really gonna miss it... It was the best.

It's not exactly a glitch, but I'm happy it's gone.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI -Flag Juggling in itself is a skill. Not anybody can perform said action quickly and effectively. There is a huge skill gap when it comes to flag juggling which shows how much skill it takes. Not to mention that you are constantly reminded of the flag runner's position as the flag icon is showing their path. -Compare your flag juggle to a Major League Gaming professional player who can toss it twice as far as you, promotes skill while still maintains a balanced game. [/quote] I seriously LOL'd at that comment. If you throw the flag twice as far and know how to do it, its not a skill, its a trick, kinda like the BXR was in Halo 2. Flag running is in no way skillful, it would be more skillful to take the flag and stick with teammates who defend you. And work Cooperatively, ex. someones flanking flag holder, flag defender drops flag while returning fire, or uses AA armor lock to hold down a good 5 seconds for back up. Now if the flag holder is by himself with the flag then that's the whole teams fault. I admit I would flag run, it made the game boring, all I had to do was get there flag and start flag running. I would have the advantage of speed, I'd get the flag farther easily on solo, how is this skill oriented? EDIT: I forgot to mention, this is definitely not a bug, more of an Exploit. I'm sure the whole Flag Captured... Flag Dropped... going on repeatedly, was not intended. I think that was the most annoying part about it when you play CTF, [Edited on 07.20.2010 5:00 AM PDT]

I'm glad it's gone because the repeated announcements were really -blam!- annoying.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ll Vulgar ll It's not a glitch, it's just an exploit and I'm glad it's gone.[/quote] Why are you glad it's gone? Justify your answer.[/quote] Flag Taken! Flag Dropped! Flag Taken! Flag Dropped! Flag Taken! Flag Dropped! Flag Taken!

My own opinion is that it doesn't really matter as long as the audio glitching is fixed. Don't wanna hear flag dropped/taken constantly. Other than that, honestly, I don't even think most people use it while entirely understanding what they're doing. They just see their peers do it and immediately assume it's the best strategy and all skillful players should do it, when, honestly, I find I'm usually much better off not giving away my position. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] UL7IM4 G33K It is only balanced if both teams juggle. I don't like games where I am forced to do something to win, especially something that isn't fair nor supposed to be there.[/quote] Honestly, I find two problems with this point. First, how often is a team that knows and employs flag juggling going to get paired up with one that doesn't? People that flag juggle will get paired up with people of a relatively equal skill level, who will presumably have, by that point, learned about flag juggling (I know there are exceptions, but they're rare enough). Second, you're not forced to do it to win. It might be harder to go without, but you are by no means forced to do it by virtue of the other team doing it. What you ARE forced to do is deal with stopping it. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] UL7IM4 G33K The problem with the juggle is that it magnifies the penalty beyond what Bungie intended. You can get the flag X distance in the amount of time it takes to respawn. It will take those players Y (dependant on distance from flag) time to now intercept you after that. But, what happens if the movement penalty is gone? The amount of time it takes for them to catch you relies on how far and fast you move their flag. If Bungie intended them to have a certain chance to get the flag back by only allowing you to go so far in the amount of time it takes to respawn then your juggle essentially breaks that balance.[/QUOTE] That's assuming that the balance was intentionally there to begin with. If bungie has outright stated it, feel free to point it out to me. Granted, it's obvious such an effect exists on maps such as The Pit. CTF on The Pit, getting the flag across the map with flag juggling is pathetically easy compared to without, specifically because it makes it easy to cross the mid before the opposing team spawns and gets in view of you. Once you cross mid, you're generally home free. But you'd be hard pressed to extend that argument to all ctf/map setups. Though intending such a balance is not outside the realm of reason. And I think that alone pokes holes a mile wide in the idea that bungie would only remove it to cater to less skilled players. [Edited on 07.20.2010 4:34 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI -Flag Juggling in itself is a skill. Not anybody can perform said action quickly and effectively. There is a huge skill gap when it comes to flag juggling which shows how much skill it takes. Not to mention that you are constantly reminded of the flag runner's position as the flag icon is showing their path. [/quote] You better be kidding me...

um dude i manged to do the second time i tried so it isn't hard it is just an excuse flag jugglers use and taking on three people with a flag is skill

If the option to flag juggle is able to be added in customs, then surely, it can be turned on for certain playlists in Matchmaking, no? If the MLG playlist comes back (which I don't see happening due to arena tbh) I am 100% POSITIVE that it'll be in it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI Bear in mind. 1) Flag juggling was around in Halo:CE 2) Flag juggling was around in Halo 2 3) This 'glitch' wasn't fixed for Halo 3 4) Is it possible that Bungie has changed this to cater for the majority of Halo's lesser skilled players? (imo Brigadiers and below) Note: That's my opinion, I'm entitled. 5) Is it possible that Bungie hates Competitive aspects of gaming and is trying to wipe it out of their games slowly?[/quote] 1) Flag BOUNCING was in CE, not juggling. While you could perform the juggle there was no movement penalty in CE so there was no point in doing it. 2) In Halo 2 was the first time the penalty was introduced, creating the problem. The physics of the flag were changed and it heavily hurt the ability to juggle in Halo 2, although it was rediscovered. 3) This is a huge misconception. Juggling did not exist in Halo 3 or the Halo 3 Beta until TU1. TU1 altered flag physics to allow for throwing (originally it stopped dead where you dropped it). The result was the rediscovering of the flag juggle, again. 4) They changed it because they have tried to fix it several times and failed (Halo 2 and Halo 3). Altering flag physics didn't work, so they created a system specifically for it. 5) Bungie doesn't care about competitive or casual, just that people enjoy playing their game. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI -Flag Juggling in itself is a skill. Not anybody can perform said action quickly and effectively. There is a huge skill gap when it comes to flag juggling which shows how much skill it takes. Not to mention that you are constantly reminded of the flag runner's position as the flag icon is showing their path.[/quote] Regardless of how much skill something takes, an exploit is an exploit. The definition of an exploit, in gaming terms, it the use of any method to bypass built in mechanics. This is exactly what the juggle does, it bypasses the movement penalty. While I will agree that throwing is quite skillful, the juggle in itself isn't. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI -Compare your flag juggle to a Major League Gaming professional player who can toss it twice as far as you, promotes skill while still maintains a balanced game.[/quote] It is only balanced if both teams juggle. I don't like games where I am forced to do something to win, especially something that isn't fair nor supposed to be there. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI -If the other team manages to get a cap on you while you're all re-spawning and he's flag juggling, it's your fault not theirs. They have map control, they maintain map control, they benefit from their skills.[/quote] The problem with the juggle is that it magnifies the penalty beyond what Bungie intended. You can get the flag X distance in the amount of time it takes to respawn. It will take those players Y (dependant on distance from flag) time to now intercept you after that. But, what happens if the movement penalty is gone? The amount of time it takes for them to catch you relies on how far and fast you move their flag. If Bungie intended them to have a certain chance to get the flag back by only allowing you to go so far in the amount of time it takes to respawn then your juggle essentially breaks that balance. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI - It's not hard to stop a flag juggler unless your team has been completely annihilated and is on spawn, or you're the kind of person who thinks that playing good defense in CTF means camping your own base.[/quote] There is a supreme problem with this argument. Lets compare the juggle to that of a vehicle. Both give away your position, both grant a speed bonus. But, juggling has one distinct advantage over a vehicle: you don't need a vehicle to do it. A flag carrier gets blown up in a mangoose, so a living player must either walk the flag or grab another mongoose and get a friend to grab it. Juggling requires that a teammate only pick up the flag and continue. Vehicles take more time and manpower than the juggle, yet the juggle provides a similar benefit. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FirewalI - CTF with flag juggling adds pace to the game and is fair. Whether it's an exploit or not isn't even really relevant. It adds to gameplay. (I've never seen any evidence that it is an exploit)[/quote] Again, it is only fair if both teams use it. The problem is, not everyone knows it exists and therefore (especially in the early days the glitch was used) it allowed players to win unfairly. Just cause everyone cheats against each other doesn't make it fair. Its balanced, but not fair nor acceptable. Same issue as BXB, BXR, RRXYY, etc. in Halo 2. [Edited on 07.20.2010 3:10 AM PDT]

I've always thought that flag juggling was a good strategy or trick that players could use. You don't have to use it, but if you want to be faster you can. It is a risk reward maneuver and I believe it was balanced just fine, the throw distance was even reduced in Halo 3. I'm not all that angry that it's removed from default MM, because Bungie confirmed awhile ago that it can be put back in via custom settings.

#1 It's extreamly annoying #2 It exploits the games base rule that the flag carrier is to run slower with the flag. might as well just make the run speed with the flag 100% or juggeling ineffective.

flag taken. fflaaaag droopped. flag taken. flaaagg droopped. /thread

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Fredrik who cares if I'm a troll? flag juggling has been removed from competetive playlist's cause its an exploit. and flag juggling has been confirmed to be in the game for those who cry for it. there's nothing more to discuss on this subject. you think it's an ability cause you can handle it - but obviously bungie are putting it in the game to stop your tears. but it's still not an ability. deal with it.[/quote] Super Fix'd

It's annoying, but i don't really care that much. As long as they get rid of the "flag taken, flag dropped, flag taken, flag dropped..."