[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Stunter230 I realize there has always been health in Halo, but the difference between Reach (and CE) and H2/H3 is that the health regenerates, albeit at a slower rate. That is fine with me. The scenario that keeps playing in my head is me dying prematurely on my way to pick up a health pack. The other scary thought is that people won't want to suffer through the first scenario and will just camp the health pack spawn. In the article from IGN that was posted today, Carney talked about two things that I picked up on. One, he talked about how it was a problem (or at least I felt like he was describing it as a problem, even if he didn't say "It's a problem") that the H3 health wasn't displayed. If that was such a major problem, just display the health bar in a similar way to the shields. Instead of your shield bar flashing red, it becomes another meter. Problem solved. The other thing I got from that article was the comment on how controlling the top of Powerhouse is so critical because that's where the health pack spawns. That gives me the idea that there is only one spawn and the team that controls gets the insta-win. If I'm wrong (and I hope I am), please correct me.[/quote] When your health is low dont make a mad dash to the HP. Wait until your shields recharge. So what if people camp them, shields still recharge slower and health drains fast so you could kill them imediately.About powerhouse, we dont know but Bungie has told us there are alot of HP spawn points through the maps. [Edited on 04.24.2010 1:00 AM PDT]

Elites will only be seen in one sided fights, aka Generator Defense and Invasion. The odds aren't supposed to be fair, the Spartans have the better position and weaponry available from the start and the Elites have superior stats.

You guys have succesfully put my fears to rest. It makes sense that the health won't matter to greatly with headshot weapons and spartans still have some regeneration. Thanks a lot to Phoenix, I think a guide like that should be published in a weekly update or something along those lines.

it wont be unbalanced cause: A)95%of the time you ll be playing spartans vs spartans or elites vs elites sothe nemy will not have an advantage over you. B)the only time its spartans vs elites it will be on invasion and spartans get the high ground so they have a btter chance of overpowering the aliens

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Phoenix1330 Reach has a few differences in the health model from the previous games. so here is how reach will work:[/quote] Big help my friend, I understand now.

I'm looking forward to the beta for the role health packs play out. I never got much of a multiplayer experience in CE, and I'm really hoping that Health packs are a good change for Reach, I'm looking forward to it.

Reach has a few differences in the health model from the previous games. so here is how reach will work: As a Spartan: You have 2 layers of health. The first layer is sheilds the second is health. The [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] takes damage BEFORE the [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] can take ANY damage. Once the [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] is depleted damage will be applied to the [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b]. If you avoid damage for a certain amount of time the shield layer will recharge to full capacity again. The [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] will only deplete once the shield layer is COMPLETELY removed. If after taking damage from the [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] you avoid fire for a short time your [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] will fully recharge THEN your [B]HEALTH LAYER[/b] will PARTIALLY recharge to he closest [u]1/3[/u] above the point of damage you took. This means if you take a total of 45% damage to your [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] leaving you at 55% health, after your [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] recharges your [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] will recharge on it's own to 66%. It also means that if your [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] takes less then 33% damage, you will not need to seek out a health pack as it will recharge to full. This could be compared to a "staggering" effect to pain. Eventually you overcome the pain and though still injured, you can bear to be hurt again without succumbing. To fully recharge the [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] you need to seek out a [u]health pack[/u]. The [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] contains approximately 66% of your total health, and your health layer contains approximately 33%. As an Elite: Your health model is identical to the Spartans except for 2 major points. 1.When the [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] is recharging it will recharge to FULL capacity after the [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] is recharged, negating the need for [u]health packs[/u]. 2. The [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] contains approx. 50% of the health and the [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] contains 50%. Another difference for both Spartans and Elites in Reach is that if you have ANY shield left, your health can not be touched. So even if you have 1 point of damage left in your sheilds, and someone melees you, that melee will only do 1 point of damage, leaving your health untouched. This is different from Halo 3 where with 1 point of damage left on your shields the melee would still deliver a full (if i remember correctly) 30 points of damage, meaning this would deplete your sheilds and carry over the remaining 29 points to your health killing you.(health was 25 points of damage in halo3) HALO 3's model There were 2 layers in Halo 3 as well. The [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] and [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b]. The [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] contained 50 HP, and had to be completely depleted before the 25 HP, invisible [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] would be affected. After avoiding damage for 3 seconds your [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] would recharge. After an additional 15 seconds your [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] would recharge. Additionally the Halo 3 system allowed for damage to the [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] to carry over to the [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] if it exceeded the remaining HP in your [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] the sniper rifle is one such weapon. It deals 80 HP of damage, this means that if you are at full health in halo 3 the sniper rifle with a body shot would deal 75 DP to the [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] and carry over 5 DP to the [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] leaving the player at 20 HP on their [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b]. In Reach however that scenario would only result in a 75 DP to the [b]SHIELD LAYER[/b] and 0 DP to the [b]HEALTH LAYER[/b] as there is no carry over damage in Reach Hope that helps! EDITED to include some formating fixes. also adding more info on the spartans recharging health as asked EDIT 2 adding the HALO 3 model

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Voltage800 There was a health system in Halo 2 and Halo 3, it just wasn't visible.[/quote] true, but your health still came back and recharged, it wasn't like what halo reach and ODST are/were like.

I wouldn't worry. I was confuzzled and scared when I heard health packs were going to be made a necessity in Reach. But then I went back and played a little CE and a little ODST and realized they are not such a bad thing. So don't worry. If they really do have all these problems you are suggesting, Bungie will fix them in the beta or will not be present in the retail release.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wizzen james [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jim Jim Fred [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Stunter230 First and foremost, I've played a lot of Halo 3.[/quote] Play Halo CE, health packs work, wait until you play the beta before you get too worried[/quote] Its hard to base what works off a game with no XBL support.[/quote] On xbox connect health packs worked fine.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jim Jim Fred [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Stunter230 First and foremost, I've played a lot of Halo 3.[/quote] Play Halo CE, health packs work, wait until you play the beta before you get too worried[/quote] Its hard to base what works off a game with no XBL support.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rand0m TAG truthfully i feel this whole concern about health packs are redundant. any headshot capable weapon will kill with a single headshot once shields are down. also halo 3 had an invisible health bar, which took i think 15 seconds to recharge. im not going to be too concerned over my health, just need to make sure my shields are up.[/quote] Winna, winna, chicken DINNER!

Controlling Health spawns will be an element for sure. But rest easy; there will be plenty of them.

I think people keep forgetting that we'll still have sheilds. So unless you're an AR spammer, all you need is a head shot regardless of the enemies health (when shields are down, of course).

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Stunter230 If each base has health packs then I'm perfectly fine with it. But that doesn't seem to be the case according to the IGN article [quote]Arena or any of our standard game types are always Spartan-on-Spartan now, so you want to own the top of Powerhouse because that's where the health pack is. You can't just huddle out by the rocks where, if we're taking damage there's nothing we can do about it. [/quote] Spartans regenerate in thirds? Since when? Source me please.[/quote] [url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=25376]Unlike Spartans, their health is not limited to recharging in thirds as their vitality is whittled away in stages, but will recharge fully without even the need for a health pack. Their health also recharges faster, as do their shields. Significantly faster. [/url]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Stunter230 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Melhane Chief [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Stunter230 If each base has health packs then I'm perfectly fine with it. But that doesn't seem to be the case according to the IGN article [quote]Arena or any of our standard game types are always Spartan-on-Spartan now, so you want to own the top of Powerhouse because that's where the health pack is. You can't just huddle out by the rocks where, if we're taking damage there's nothing we can do about it. [/quote] [/quote] It probably means the most convenient location for one. There are most likely others that are out of the way, and wouldn't be worth staying at though. And I'm sure maps like Boneyard will have a lot more than one...[/quote] I hope that's the case. As for Boneyard, I don't really care because where I think the HPs will matter is the competitive 4v4 Team Slayer type stuff.[/quote] I assume everyone in a competitive environment will be going for headshots, or will have a power weapon. Which basically makes any health negligible. I'm sure Bungie knows what's best for their game though, and if there is only one per map then they might change that for the final game.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Melhane Chief [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Stunter230 If each base has health packs then I'm perfectly fine with it. But that doesn't seem to be the case according to the IGN article [quote]Arena or any of our standard game types are always Spartan-on-Spartan now, so you want to own the top of Powerhouse because that's where the health pack is. You can't just huddle out by the rocks where, if we're taking damage there's nothing we can do about it. [/quote] [/quote] It probably means the most convenient location for one. There are most likely others that are out of the way, and wouldn't be worth staying at though. And I'm sure maps like Boneyard will have a lot more than one...[/quote] I hope that's the case. As for Boneyard, I don't really care because where I think the HPs will matter is the competitive 4v4 Team Slayer type stuff.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Stunter230 If each base has health packs then I'm perfectly fine with it. But that doesn't seem to be the case according to the IGN article [quote]Arena or any of our standard game types are always Spartan-on-Spartan now, so you want to own the top of Powerhouse because that's where the health pack is. You can't just huddle out by the rocks where, if we're taking damage there's nothing we can do about it. [/quote] [/quote] It probably means the most convenient location for one. There are most likely others that are out of the way, and wouldn't be worth staying at though. And I'm sure maps like Boneyard will have a lot more than one...

If each base has health packs then I'm perfectly fine with it. But that doesn't seem to be the case according to the IGN article [quote]Arena or any of our standard game types are always Spartan-on-Spartan now, so you want to own the top of Powerhouse because that's where the health pack is. You can't just huddle out by the rocks where, if we're taking damage there's nothing we can do about it. [/quote] Spartans regenerate in thirds? Since when? Source me please. [Edited on 04.23.2010 3:17 PM PDT]

Health regenerates in thirds for Spartans. Controlling health packs will probably become as important as maintaining control of power weapons. Health packs will probably have very quick respawn times so I doubt it will be a problem.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Stunter230 Maybe the insta-win was hyperbole, but I still don't like that the health won't regenerate. The situation I described in my OP is different in H3 than it will be in my perception of Reach, in that although it took the invisible health some time to recharge, it still recharged. My vision of Reach is there is only one key area with health packs and one team will always be on top of it because its such a key part of the map. If you're low on health and the other team has control of the HPs, then you're screwed because you can't get to the packs without dying.[/quote] Or, since health is barely even noticable, you can continue on your objective, and just be support for your teammates with more health. And I doubt they'll only put one health pack on a map. I'm guessing that each team's spawn will have at least one, and possibly one in the middle.

Maybe the insta-win was hyperbole, but I still don't like that the health won't regenerate. The situation I described in my OP is different in H3 than it will be in my perception of Reach, in that although it took the invisible health some time to recharge, it still recharged. My vision of Reach is there is only one key area with health packs and one team will always be on top of it because its such a key part of the map. If you're low on health and the other team has control of the HPs, then you're screwed because you can't get to the packs without dying.

The only time non-regenerating health will make any difference is if you are forced to fight with non-headshot weapons. Even then, if you're skilled enough you should come out on top. And how would controlling the health pack spawn be an insta-win? It only takes like half a second maybe to take down full health, and if your team can't even do that then you suck.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Stunter230 how they're going to be implemented into Reach.[/quote] The same way they were in CE, perhaps? /sarcasm

Actually, technically it was worse in Halo 3. You still had health in Halo 3, and if you just came out of a fight then you would be weaker than someone who just spawned. So that situation that you described in your OP, already happens a lot in Halo 3, your health just happened to regenerate every 15-20 seconds or so, and was not visible to you. So now in reach, you have an opportunity to instantly recharge your health by means of a health pack. Also in the 15-20 seconds that follow up after a fight, you're probably likely to find a health pack anyway. That's my take on it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Health Pack You called?[/quote] This made me lol [quote]If my experience with CE tells me anything, camping health packs is useless. They don't recharge shields, so it would only grant you a few more hits.[/quote] What I'm trying to say is that the team that controls the health pack spawns has a huge advantage in that if they survive a close one-on-one encounter, they can heal up and have the advantage over someone who doesn't have that luxury. While this is the main motivation behind controling these spawns, I see it as too great of an advantage. [quote]I'm not sure if I agree with Bungie's decision to give Elites regenerating health. It just doesn't make sense for an Elite to recover fully from the brink of death. I really hope Elites won't be able to pick up health packs. Maybe regenerating in halves would be a good compromise?[/quote] I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it this way. But the part about picking up health packs... I thought it would function similarly to ODST, where if you need and you walk over it, the benefits are given to you. They way you describe it is like an equipment sort of deal. As for the halves idea, I hate to sound like a brat, but either everyone recharges or no one does [quote]Do you see people camping OS in MM? If they did, it would really only grant them one kill. Health packs spawn every fifteen seconds (as confirmed in the GTTV interview), but there won't be any invincibility.[/quote] I'm talking about situations where you don't pick it up right away, only when you need it midfight. Take this example on Gaurdian. You're sniping at S2 and someone gets the jump on you and your team and starts shooting you while coming up elbow. Even though the person coming from elbow got around your setup and has the first few shots, you win because you pick up the OS at just the right time and kill him.