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originally posted in: Element Based Primary
Edited by Vampire Nox: 9/26/2016 8:12:38 PM
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The idiot Kotaku editor now in a Lead Design position at Bungie (Luke Smith), thought that removing Elemental Damage on Primary weapon would somehow make weapon use more "diverse". But now that [b]ALL[/b] weapons do only Kinetic damage, that decision has only had the effect of [b]stagnating[/b] weapon diversity. Really, there's no reason to ever switch out one Primary weapon for a different one. Literally any Primary weapon will work in any/all situations. Before, when we [b]HAD[/b] Primary Elemental Damage; players would switch Primary weapons to account for the enemy they were fighting at the time. This created a good rotation of weapons (as the Vanilla game and the first two DLC all had Primary weapons with an elemental damage modifier) so that players would be able to tackle the various challenges in the game with forethought and proper equipping of weapons. But the removal of Elements "increasing weapon diversity" was just a thin lie that was easy to expose. in reality, the removal of Primary Elements was simply to increase the Grind by placing the player at a disadvantage. This had the effect of increasing player time-in-game, thus making that statistic look much better on Bungie's precious spreadsheets. It was never about "increasing weapon diversity", and weapon use was already very diverse. No, Luke Smith made that excuse just to try to deflect criticism for a blatant attempt to arbitrarily increase the Grinding in Destiny. But I and many other players are with you on your last sentiment. I would also love to see elemental damage return to Primary weapons. I think it would do much to reignite interest in this game. Edit = fixed the person at fault for this change.
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  • I can confirm that my rotation has gone down from 6+ depending on range and burn factors to 2 depending on whether I want an exotic or legendary primary.

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  • Yep. That's pretty much how it's gone since the removal. But hey, who needs variety?

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  • How did it make it more diverse? Now the only gun people want to use is mida multi tool. So people go from using a handful of elemental primaries to only using one. Seems like the plan backfired.

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  • Edited by TheShadow: 9/29/2016 7:53:16 PM
    [quote]How did it make it more diverse? Now the only gun people want to use is mida multi tool. So people go from using a handful of elemental primaries to only using one. Seems like the plan backfired.[/quote] Actually it didn't backfire. Bungie knew y1 would of blown through Ttk so they removed the elemental besides capping y1 because they wanted to stretch out the content. There is literally no real reason they had to go as far as they did other then that. I have never heard of any company nerf, remove, cap as much or many times as Bungie has in one your. And Bungie will continue to do it because the lack of content but most because of their poor mechanics that Luke smith couldn't figure out what to do.

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  • is is per usual with most of Bungoos plans.

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  • Keeping it short, ZHALO is the ONLY gun that sees any play on arc burn. Just let that sink in about diversity.

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  • It didn't, and that's the point of my post. Luke Smith gave the weak, easily-defeated explanation for the removal of elemental damage as "it will increase weapon diversity. People feel forced to use only the Raid guns, and we want them to try out all of our other weapons (read: sub-par by comparison) as well". But this was easy to see through. Having every Primary weapon only do Kinetic damage had two effects: 1) It stagnated weapon diversity. Whereas before the removal, most players kept an arsenal of Raid weapons on themselves to be prepared for a variety of situations (which is understandable, Raid weapons by their very definition are supposed to be the best weapons in this game and any game...); after the removal, people funneled their weapon choice down to one-two weapons, since now those 1-2 weapons will suffice in any and all situations. There became no reason to ever switch Primary weapons. 2) It artificially increased the Grind and play-time on Bungie's precious spreadsheets. With every weapon doing Kinetic damage, it takes longer to drop a shielded enemies defenses, and even by an incrementally longer amount, makes a person play longer to achieve the same goal as before the removal. This is widely held to be the core motivation for the removal of elemental damage from Primary weapons, since the removal did nothing to increase weapon diversity. That is why people like you and I have such a problem with the removal of elemental damage from Primary weapons.

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  • I'm not with you on this one tbh. I feel switching out primary weapons all the time obstructs the flow of gameplay.. Something about seeing someone go into their inventory mid-game to switch their primary (or any weapon for that matter) just seems unnatural. The idea is: choose your weapon layout before going into said mission/strike etc and switch between the 3 (primary, secondary, and heavy) And if in doubt then yeah, you can always switch weapons.... But the Primary is your primary- Use it to kill off the bulk of your lesser enemies, and when you come across say: a Hive Wizard round the corner, with is solar shield, its up to you to quick switch to your special/heavy weapon with the relevant element (solar) to deal with such a task - which makes it seem more realistic, and keeps the game flowing nicely, and entices switching up weapons. If they brought back elemental primaries, you'd just see people abusing it, only stopping and switching between their different elemental primary weapons without even considering that their special/heavy weapon could deal with it just as effectively. I've got all too many memories of me running around with the Fang of Ir Yut (arc) which meant i hardly ever switched to using an arc special or heavy, because using the fang was the most convenient. Having kinetic primaries DOES provoke a more diverse weapon range, if you ask me. It's just about being wise with your gaming and choosing the right weapons for the job.

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  • But your argument is defeated because [b]any[/b] Primary weapon will "do the job". ]Players already [i]had to[/i] plan out their load-outs based upon most frequent enemy likely encountered in a given activity, and plan their weapon use accordingly. Players would figure: In this Strike or Area, I'm going to face a lot of Fallen. So I'll equip my Fang of Ir'yut/Fatebringer for Fallen Captains/Majors/Ultras, but also some Solar weapons for any shielded Shanks. They would plan their loadouts. Now? Now you just equip the single best Primary you have with the God-roll +5 vs. Sweaty-noobs, which is most likely a Hung Jury. Then you're set. And in reality, you don't have to equip that Kinetic weapon, because you've been using it ad nauseum since the removal of elemental damage, because you need to use nothing else. And that's the problem. Primary weapon diversity has been stagnated since the removal as one weapon, your best weapon, will do everything for any type of enemy shields. No longer do you have to plan out what primary's to pack for the trip to account for shielding, now one weapon does it all. And that's the problem I have with the weak decision to remove the elemental damage.

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  • So what I see is, "People will waste their time switching their primary instead of using a mob-clearing heavy or a boss-shredding special all the time." I think not.

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  • People didn't switch weapons midgame they would switch between activities. And even if they did switch due to switch penalties for special and heavy ammo I have to wait to switch if I need to for a synth to compensate instead of quick swap a primary. Especially in taken activities where there are rainbow shields.

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  • That's not what anyone is saying though. Where did you come up with that?

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  • Well yeah.... I think so, in the case of primary elemental damage! I guess that went straight over your head though m8. Like my friend Nox said: "Really, there's no reason to ever switch out one Primary weapon for a different one. Literally any Primary weapon will work in any/all situations." (which i might add, sounds pretty diverse in terms of being able to use any primary you want!) BUT, if primary weapons are as good as they are currently, why would you want to make them better by giving it elemental damage? That will only mean you're less likely to use your special/heavy.. For example, if i'm there slaying a horde of Hive with my arc scout rifle, then a hive Knight comes round the corner with an arc shield, I'm not going to switch to an arc special/heavy weapon to deal with its' shield, as my primary arc scout rifle will do the job just fine. = less diverse... The fact that we have kinetic primary weapons entices us to want to switch weapons to a special, or heavy weapon in order to deal with said sheild, or active modifiers. = more diverse. It's bad enough and boring enough as it is, playing with people on strikes (when arc burn is active) who will use JUST the Supercell and NOTHING ELSE. *I guess that's what I'm trying to say*

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  • Edited by dilligaf941023: 9/28/2016 3:13:44 PM
    It didn't go over my head. You said up top how switching primaries all the time affects the flow of play. What did you think I was arguing about? Burns are not always on but when they are it's nice to have a primary that doesn't feel weak as sh!t. Especially when/if specialist is active as well.

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  • Yea. If I had a year 3 vision of confluence, I would never use my ghally even in solar burn. That argument is weak as *****. You would still pull out a shotty for the sword knight or invisible vandable that sneaks up on you and you will still use a sniper for bosses. Your argument literally makes no sense.

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  • Yes it does you absolute melt. You've just backed up it up yourself! If you're so happy with pulling out your Gally or shotgun or using your sniper to take on bosses, then why the fudge are you so keen for having elemental primary damage ASWELL...? It's just not needed. Full stop. So quit your moaning. Bungie, by the looks of things, agrees with my views, and not yours. tata now xox

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  • Elemental Primaries ruined PVE. "Oh man I got this godly scout rifle, well no element so its trash" is all that was going on. The ele primaries were killing all diversity. Vision, fatebringer, all you needed man. Didnt matter if you had something with better rolls, no element? Useless. I personally enjoy the game way more without ele primaries. They will never, ever come back. And bringing them back will do nothing but make it so you only use 2 weapons again which would then make shit more boring then it already gets.

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  • I actually didn't use the elemental primaries because They were elemental.. I used them because of their stats... Firefly and quick reload on a precision kill on a Fate bringer, was too good not to use. It's still the same perks I look for. I love firefly, my scout rifle now has it. It fate bringer did not have those perks, I'd have used it in a strike with arc burn, and nothing else. Same with all the other guns with elemental damages. The elemental really only makes it viable with a burn or a shield. Nowadays the kinetic damage is so great I don't even need to switch to a different gun because my primary can take out shields just as fast as if they had a burn.

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  • [quote]Elemental Primaries ruined PVE. "Oh man I got this godly scout rifle, well no element so its trash" is all that was going on. The ele primaries were killing all diversity. Vision, fatebringer, all you needed man. Didnt matter if you had something with better rolls, no element? Useless.[/quote] Sorry, but you seem to forget Bungie has and always will have the ability to switch up burn or add other things like they have always done in the nightfall and POE. Changing the elements has never been an issue for Bungie to be able to do. You ran with a little click that thought they were the only weapons to use. Just like PvP gamers that (always) go to the next go-to because of Bungie's nerf team that continuously nerfs everything in this game. I'd love for you to tell me the "variety" of weapons being used. [quote]I personally enjoy the game way more without ele primaries. They will never, ever come back. And bringing them back will do nothing but make it so you only use 2 weapons again which would then make shit more boring then it already gets.[/quote] No, it will make it more fun. When you take visual out of a game that most gamers play PvE for besides wanting to destoy things. Knowing that's what were supposed to be able to do. By removing it has killed the experience in PVE besides stretching out the encounter and calling it a challenge lol.

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  • I use my not like the others 95% of the time. Your point?

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  • Point is the elements literally made it pointless to use anything else. You can scream kick and cry all you want. They wont come back. If you dont like it, trade the game in I guess. These threads are pointless and will never make a difference.

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  • [quote]They wont come back. If you dont like it, trade the game in I guess. These threads are pointless and will never make a difference.[/quote] And the fact that you seem to think that this is OK is the other large part of the problem.

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  • The primaries caused a issue, no one used anything but them. Only a handful of people are still screaming children about it. The ele primaries needed to go.

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  • [quote]no one used anything but them.[/quote] Because they were Raid weapons. They were the best weapons in the game. and aside from the elemental damage they had the best stats and Perk combos. But then, they are [b]supposed to be[/b] that good. They're the "end-game" weapons, they were supposed to be the best weapons in the game. Now? People use all of three or four weapons. Whatever is the best in the Meta, that's all people use. Before, we had the [b]entire range[/b] of Raid weapons and PoE weapons to choose from. So weapon use was actually [b]more[/b] diverse because we had a wide selection of weapons with burn. Don't like Hand Cannons? Don't use Fatebringer. Use the Fang instead for Arc burn. Don't like Scout rifles? Don't use the Vision, use the Abyss Defiant instead. Etc., etc. Now? One Primary weapon does everything. There's zero reason to ever switch from your favorite Primary weapon, as it will work in every situation regardless of Burn or Shielding. The [b]removal[/b] of elemental damage did more to harm weapon selection in this game than [b]having[/b] elemental damage ever did.

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  • Why are you even still posting? Ele primaries are dead. You are beating a dead horse man. They will never come back and most people seem to be ok with it. The ele primaries also were NOT the best weapons in the once HoW came out cause we could literally make ANY weapon a perfect god roll. Even then "oh no burn its trash" Hell even I said it when I had godlike weapons drop that would have shit on the VoC. However, no burn. It will NEVER come back, and nothing you say, or do will ever change it. So stop living in the past and move on.

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