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Edited by UltraNoahXV:
9/2/2016 10:13:39 AM
93
Stop Using Statistics and Rotating Metas to "Balance" things in Destiny
[i]Warning. This may be start of a long rant that may not make sense but I'll do my best to explain. TL:DR will at bottom if I have enough space.[/i]
[i]The video I linked is an example of what I'm trying to talk about. Notice how the guy said at the time of recording; this was made before Pokemon Go.[/i]
Bungie, you need to change your Philosophy on how you "Nerf" things or just stop nerfing them. Looking at data Statics is a bad idea and rotating metas is a bad idea, in Destiny. In a game where there can be so much customization and loadouts with different abilities and powers, these "nerfs" have caused us to be less powerful.
You've rotated metas so much, that [b][i][u]Defender is now "OP" just from not getting any major buffs. Striker is now "OP" even though the only thing buffed was melee and Super.[/u][/i][/b]
Edit: Not saying defender is OP when it is not, but everything else had been nerfed and people Are calling it op, hence the Quotation marks.
Weapons now, aren't a good as what they could be. [b][i][u]Guns having Reduce ammo in an FPS is a Stupid decision unless its decided by how much ammo you pick up.[/u][/i][/b] Phantom Bullets is the worse thing that could happen and "Spamming the Trigger" is the worse reason that has ever existed. This effects Water Star/Zaouli's Bane/Last Word archetype's the most. You telling us to "pace our shots" on fast RoF Guns is stupid.
Our Subclasses are getting nerfs that shouldn't be a thing. Hunter's did not need Throwing Knife nerfed. Tripmines didn't need a Nerf even though they were annoying. Warlock's didn't need Sunsinger nerfed so brutally and changed a perk completely or have there Super Reduced in time on StormCaller's transcendence.
Exotics aren't great as what they could've been. [b][i][u]Nerfing Aggressive Ballistics was the most stupid thing I have ever seen that affected all guns.[/u][/i][/b] Suros didn't need that 4-Bullet delay Nerf, Monte Carlo didn't need nerfed, Last Word has no point in being hip fired, Fabian Strategy was affected by "Doctrine Nerfs" and so much more exotics.
This trend has gone so long, that it is [b][i][u]very predictable to see nerfs coming.[/u][/i][/b] Example: That removed Cool-Down artifact, I can see that getting nerfed very quickly for no reason. The no super, enhanced stats and abilities artifact, could get nerfed as well.
And the worse part:
PVE is affected by this the most without any counterbuffs. *Cough Ammo Nerfs Cough*
The last thing I want to say, is when you do decide to Nerf something, truly think about why it needs a Nerf. Does it give a "Game breaking Advantage" without the use of timing and strategy? Are there abilities where you rush in and kill a crowd that don't need a nerf? Does this weapon do X amount of [u]Proper Damage from this Archetype's Killing range?[/u] Also, don't blame Statistics on stuff. People do make video's on the best loadouts and such so don't be surprised when other Guardians replicate them for sucesss.
Last thing; Check out this post: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/212102658/0/0
Its what inspired me to make this.
[u][b]TL:DR[/b][/u]
Stop using Statistics and metas to Nerf stuff. In this game, it doesn't work with so many Potential combinations. Start buffing stuff please. I'm tired of killing enemies using marshmallows and rocks.
Please share this with other people. I'd really appreciate it.
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The problem isn't that the Sandbox team uses statistics. The problem is HOW they use them. Things all being equal is not always balance. For example, your body always tries to maintain balance so that conditions in your body are consistent with good health. But in order to maintain that balance sometimes it needs to UNbalance things. For example....if you're an alcoholic and are constantly flooding your body with alcohol...your body is going to rev up your metabolism to get rid of the alcohol faster. Its also going to turn DOWN the places where in your body where the alcohol affects your brain...so that you are affected less by it. Which is why alcoholics find that they have to drink more and more and more alcohol to get drunk, as their disease progresses. But if you have someone who Is an alcoholic, if their liver enzymes to metabolize alcohol are abnormally high...soemthings wrong. They're actually low. If the receptors in the brain that respond to alcohol aren't low...something's wrong. They're actually high. Its the same with weapon usage in the crucible. Shotguns and ARs dominated Year One. But the Sandbox team just assumed they were OP...and eventually wound up nerfing them into the ground. But in a situation where all the game's crucible maps are small, full of tight corridors and blind turns......the situation is going to FAVOR close combat. So shotguns and automatic weapons SHOULD dominate. IN fact, if their usage ISN"T High...then somethings wrong. They're actually underpowered. Which is exactly what people felt after the nerfs were made to bring their usage rates back into line with all the game's other weapons. TLDR: The use of statistics is fine. But the Sandbox team is using them in the wrong way, and without any regards to the CONTEXT in which weapons are being used. Unless the maps are designed in a way that NO particular playstyle or range of engagement is favored over any other (and this game is NOWHERE near that right now))...then going for "equal usage" of all weapons is not "balanced". Its actually the Sandbox team putting their thumb on the scale to force people to use weapons that are ill-suited to the combat conditions the game is presenting them with. Which is why the community is so often unhappy with the weapon adjustments.
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1 ReplyWait......Nintendo is Bungie, or did I take this the wrong way
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Yes stats. No rotating meta
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1 ReplyYou are a hero. Bungie get it together. I really like shadow price, but I get out fired by hand cannons. I really like hand cannons, but snipers got this recentering bullshit flinch and my precision shots don't reward me. I really would like to learn to snipe but this ammo nerf thing is dumb. I used to be very consistent with throwing knives, but now I have to follow up much more often. Same goes for trip mines. I don't even know which hole defenders with No Back Up Plans/Universal crawled out of, but they're here and I can't kill them fast enough because ghost bullets. I hate Viking Funeral, but that nerf was totally over the top. BUFF ARC BOLT, SKIP, FIRE BOLT, RedFLUX (or fusion which ever does less sticky damage cuz that is Fcuking dumb), Start buffing again. Right now most of the community thinks you guys are making very poor decisions by DECIDING WHAT WEAPONS/CLASSES WE SHOULD USE. What the hell kind of SHIIIIIT is that?
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194 RepliesThanks for taking the time to make this post. Our Sandbox team currently makes changes based on playtests, player feedback, and data. From what I read it sounds like you would like us to not use data at all when making decisions. I will take that suggestion to the team along with your request for more buffs.
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Why would they do that!? [b][i][u]The statistics, meta and data ALL show,[/u][/i][/b] that no matter what gets nerfed and how much fun they remove....their fanbase is gullible enough to keep throwing money at the screen! Insanity! You want change!? BOYCOTT
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I agree completely. Separate pve and pvp. Stop making these badass feel like trash. Undo the perk nerfs. Make our shit great again without all this bullshit and let us play the -blam!-ing game. You want us to play as befits our own individual play style after all, SO LET US
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1 ReplyThis is one thing that has always bugged the shit out of me. I get wrecked by something in crucible. Then I put in the work to get this weapon so I can start having equal gunfights. Then due to my terrible RNG a week after I obtain this weapon its nerfed. Now it's balanced but the people that get these weapons or God rolls have half of a year to profit before bungie gathers the data and realizes these weapons are op and do something about it. Lol I personally think bungie drops all these nerfs then pours everyone in the studio a drink and watches the salt flow.
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Totally agree and I have been saying the same thing for months. All nerfs do is rotate the meta and make everone play the same weapon......in other words make everyone equally miserable.
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Yeah. The "re-balancing" should be called re-meta-ling.
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I really agree with the pacing of shots when you are against fast firing weapons. Might as well say just sit down take the shots and then find someone that also has the same pace at firing. Unless you are going to give me the range of a scout rifle without damage fall off then don't give me the crap of needing to fire, wait, re-aim, fire, wait, re-aim, fire. I don't get to say time out.
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I agree. Bungie's philosophy is backwards. When the data suggests the we prefer Gun A or Subclass X, Bungie nerfs it in an attempt to make it a [b]less desirable[/b] option. They [i]take away[/i] choices. As far as I'm concerned, the correct approach would be to buff the weaker weapons and subclasses to make them [b]more desirable.[/b] That being said, infinite growth isn't possible either. Ideally, every round of nerfs would include a round of buffs. For example, instead of nerfing a gun's damage by 30%, nerf it by 15%, and buff a competing weapon's damage by 15%.
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1 ReplyIs there a "fun" statistic? Can the game get adjusted to be fun?
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6 RepliesEdited by BrygonSan: 9/2/2016 9:10:48 PMDestiny was great but now it's meh. I always think to myself, weren't they saying that this was suppose to be 10 year game? Oh well, not much we can do for the game at this point if it really is going down hill still.
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2 RepliesThis is why im not getting ROI, my buddy has been playing the BF1 beta and he says its great. Bungie doesnt care about their fan base their lack of communication with us and their refusal to fix whats broken in the game have shown that.
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2 RepliesI can say all of that in four words: Separate PVP from PVE.
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Bungie it's pretty simple...Buff the guns and subclasses I like and nerf the rest.....BOOM everyone happy....
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to prove a point. I used first curse last night in crucible and honestly it felt stronger than before. I don't ever use meta wrappings as I like my play style and will keep adapting to the new way to play. the nerfs they keep putting out is because they want balance and I can agree sometimes that balance is bs for a pve player,but as I play both pve and pvp across all 9 subclasses, I've seen a much better performance from them all and agree that the changes were okay. learn to adjust, the world personally doesn't care about you and the 1%. only the majority and the total outcome.
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A huge bump - BUT. Transcendence did need a nerf (a three - 4 second reduction) would have been fine. Done Sun singers - fire bolts were the fcking worst. They needed a range reduction and the arming time should have been slightly longer. Done Apart from that the endless cycle of nerds is annoying. We keep shifting the balance and tipping points to another weapon or class instead of balancing them all.
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Suros regime, no one has even mentioned that name in months, everything has been unbalanced since December, forget statistics, actually take the feed back
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Get rid of the word meta and bring medium damage and high damage pulse rifle back to what the used to be, red death can barely be even used anymore because hawksaw kills in the same amount of burst and fires faster and it has better stability too, spare change can't even be used for fun anymore because you have to hit every single headshot to make it a 2 burst kill
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Bump save make destiny great again
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[quote]Start buffing stuff please. I'm tired of killing enemy's using marshmallows and rocks.[/quote]
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Edited by ncexnyc: 9/2/2016 9:09:45 PMWell we're back to the same old argument that's existed since day one and in my eyes the issue is still crystal clear. You've got a game that tries to be all things to everyone. Bungie's failure to separate PvE buff/nerfs from the PvP portion of the game is the major issue. If this is something that's too difficult for them to accomplish and it appears that's the case, then they should come up with standard PvP loadouts, that way they'll get the balance they crave so dearly.
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[quote]You telling us to "pace our shots" on fast RoF Guns is stupid.[/quote] This. So much this. Preach.
