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8/18/2016 2:36:52 PM
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There are many conflicting issues with this topic, and I'd like to outline a few.
Diversity is not the goal of the forums. Targeted discussion is, and each of the forum headings has a specific purpose.
It's common sense coming to the B.Net forums would suggest users are players - why else come here? Inviting people with no common link to the forums is an invitation for rancor and toxicity. A lot of people display no respect for others with whom they have no discernible connection.
That said, it's been suggested a more stringent policy be put forth, one that allows ONLY current users to participate. That too is a mistake. It makes for an echo chamber where it's far less likely opposing views will be properly aired.
I've been on both sides. I am a year one/day one player, but I took a hiatus at TTK launch because I was completely unhappy with the direction of the game. I returned when the CEO flipped because I felt it represented a change I could support, and I'm glad to say I was right. If I had not continued to be a member of the forums I would never have known, and I would have been gone for good. In effect, forums become the "limbo" for the undead players looking for their final destination.
So what about toxicity? Those looking to limit access generally support the idea because of rancor, but it's the wrong approach. What is needed is targeted restriction, that is, heavy moderation. The ninjas work hard, but consistency seems to be an issue at times. That said, a little round table discussion amongst the ninjas might help clean up a lot of the rough edges, and in the end still serves as the best way to tamp down unnecessary discord.
This is where the forum rules may need to be redefined. In particular forums, say for instance a year three forum on Rise of Iron, anyone can post, but if a user who is not a player begins running a recurrent theme that is not based on current play but rather anger from the past is not moving the discussion forward and should have the post removed. If the person persists, then they should be banned.
Would people get pissed? Yup. Will some leave? Yup. But in the end Bungie would still be allowing discussion by all parties with the conditions A) they remain on topic and B) they remain respectful. It would be a rough transition, but one that is well overdue.
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This exactly ^
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Well since I'm the only one in here that suggested a new forum for current paid content users, I will address this again. I have since retracted my position that a new specific feedback forum be created solely for the purposes of those who have the latest paid DLC. Bungie can sort through all of it to get to the current game feedback. I'm fine with that. I also agreed that as a community we should be all inclusive. This means that IF Bungies decides to open it's forums to the public and allow new members, that it should not be selective in where those people can post. All who join regardless of whether or not they even know this is a gaming company website will have to become members in order to post. Therefore, by that act alone they will have to be allowed to post in any forum.
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I didn't direct that to you or anyone, and didn't mean for it to be a personal statement. It was an attempt to globally address the sides of the issue. Both ends of the spectrum are actually present, and I don't think either is the way to go. Targeted moderation is the correct path for me. The last thing I wanted to do was step on anyone's toes. It's a pretty important topic that needs to be handled with care.
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I'm not sure I understand. Are you speaking about toxicity or who gets to post where?
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It's all related to me. Everyone wants a voice, everyone wants a clean board. Those two concerns can be in conflict. In this particular thread we had both ends of the spectrum - someone who wanted to open certain boards to anyone at all, and one who felt usage should be restricted to current players (albeit in a minor sense). I guess I just felt there was an opportunity to make a point that might be helpful. Allow me to enumerate: 1. I don't believe it is feasible to separate the forums into those that play and those that don't for backend reasons, i.e. the software probably isn't designed to work that way. It could be made to, but is the work worth the result? 2. As to opening the forums to people who aren't even connected to the game, I can't see it. That's inviting anarchy. To me it's common sense the people who come here ought to have some kind of connection to it. Current and former players at least have some common ground. 3. Excluding former players is the other side of the coin. The problem here is those that are taking a break still have a valuable perspective. No, no one needs to hear disgruntled players repeat the same tired messages over and over, but Bungie does still need the feedback to some extent. We all remember how in December Bungie sent emails to former players asking why they had quit. Had they been on the forums that would not have been necessary. As has been previously pointed out, fence-sitters will also use the forums to help make an informed choice. 4. The purpose of the forums is targeted discussion. This is why targeted moderation is key. If members begin to hijack threads, or if they become abusive of Bungie or individuals, they need to have posts removed, be warned, and if behavior continues, be banned. It won't be popular at first, but it's the right thing to do. Present and former players would still share ideas, but the environment would be much more suitable for moving forward.
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Yes, but because of 1, you can't avoid 2. If you can't separate, then all new members would be allowed to post anywhere. 3. I agree that all Destiny gamers should be allowed to communicate and discuss the past dlc and the new game. How that impacts the individual can't be measured so it should be allowed. 4. I agree people should try and stay on topic and not hijack threads. Obviously from my experience that is allowed now and will likely continue. So all we can do is hope that if Bungie does open their website to new members, I don't have to go to the Community Feedback section and sort through everything but Destiny related topics to get to what I'm interested in and hopefully Bungie.....Current Destiny DLC feedback.
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Yes, you can. Bungie is currently doing this. If you have never played Destiny, you can't post. Your account doesn't have to be public, but you have to have one. That's why it's funny when someone states something like "Your opinion doesn't matter; you've never played Destiny". There is no way to post here otherwise. At some point moderation will have to tighten. As they say, "All roads lead to Rome", and in this case the hate level is reaching a breaking point. We're already seeing increased moderation, and if it can be tightened up, will be a good thing. The goal here should be to offer all paying members, current and former, the privilege of posting in a positive way. Abusive behavior of any kind should be dealt with immediately, and if necessary, privileges revoked.
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Edited by RedWingGirl: 8/18/2016 6:57:03 PMTwo different things. I think we are missing each other’s perspective. The OP is requesting Bungie open the forums to non-owners of Bungie games. For that to be possible, they would have to eliminate the current qualification of owning any of their games to become a member. In order to post under that new open website, you would still have to register to become a member with Bungie and create a username. This means, any member could post anywhere. (see your explanation of not being able to separate non owners with owners, or current DLC owners with non) In regards to abusive behavior, and other COC issues. I recently read the Ninja guidelines and Bungies own terms of usage. They conflict in some areas and are not enforced in others. With an almost all volunteer team interpreting these guidelines differently I'm not sure how anyone can expect more moderation then what we have now. Unless Bungie has more volunteers and reviews the Ninjas guidelines to match their own, I'm not seeing any means to an improvement or a bigger presence here. It’s just the reality of it. You and I agree there should be tighter controls on abusive posters, but even at the highest level, some don't agree with what is considered abuse. We also agree that current Bungie game owners past and present should be able to post anywhere as they do now.
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The point of contention seems to be what comprises an account holder. Bungie stated last year only people with past or current Destiny (or other Bungie games) accounts could post on B.Net. That knocked a lot of people off at that point. It was the right thing to do as well, because even then the forums were worsening. That means the current conditions are the same for everyone - you have to have played Destiny (or another Bungie game). I fully support this condition. I would not in any way wish to see this revoked, nor would I like to see non-Bungie playing people posting in the forums. That is guaranteed trouble. My issues were first technical and then procedural. I truly do get what you're driving at, and it's a valid point of discussion. I wouldn't have redacted the comment originally, because it was worth getting out in the open.
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Yep. So Same ole same ole.. lol
