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Edited by Gray Sox:
8/7/2016 4:45:02 AM
16
Are Snipers Overpowered?
So, I hear kids whine on the forums all day long that Snipers are OP in this game. Now, before starting off, i'm going to take a brief moment to say my quick observation when checking up on these kids stats is that, they simply cannot use them. They typically have a very low headshot percentage, and a very low kill count with them. And while that isn't a bad thing, it becomes so when you vent your frustrations on whatever killed you last.
Alright. now that that is out of the way, lets get to the point of this post. In order for something to be OP, it has to have no (or very few) counters, and out-kill basically everything else without question. Here lies the fault in saying snipers are OP, they have plenty of counters (flanking obviously being one, but so is using a Pulse Rifle or a Scout Rifle [especially the 3sk archetype]) and plenty of other guns, most noticeably shotguns, outkill them very regularly.
Lets look at some stats that back, especially the second point, up (The first, well, if you didn't know those already I weep for you). Keep in mind, all of these stats are current to the last update and the date range is in the last month. All averages are going to be approximated.
Control:
http://guardian.gg/en/weapon-stats?platform=2&start=2016-07-05&end=2016-08-03&mode=10&activity=0
(shotgun average 15%, sniper average 9%) - Autos and Scouts are higher than both, HCs and Pulse Rifles are over Snipers but under Shotguns
Skirmish:
http://guardian.gg/en/weapon-stats?platform=1&start=2016-07-05&end=2016-08-03&mode=9&activity=0
(SG avg, 16.25%. SR avg, 16%) - Most primaries are about the same, with Autos being lower
Salvage:
http://guardian.gg/en/weapon-stats?platform=1&start=2016-07-05&end=2016-08-03&mode=11&activity=0
(SG avg, 18.2%. SR avg, 11.3%) - Most primaries sit over snipers, but under shotguns
Clash:
http://guardian.gg/en/weapon-stats?platform=1&start=2016-07-05&end=2016-08-03&mode=12&activity=0
(SG avg, 15%. SR avg, 11%) - Most primaries sit over both
Rumble:
http://guardian.gg/en/weapon-stats?platform=1&start=2016-07-05&end=2016-08-03&mode=13&activity=0
(SG avg, 22%. SR avg, 7.2%) - Most primaries sit over snipers but under shotguns. HCs are over both.
Trials of Osiris.
http://guardian.gg/en/weapon-stats?platform=1&start=2016-07-05&end=2016-08-03&mode=14&activity=0
(SG avg, 23.6%. SR avg, 31%) - Most primaries are under both. Scouts were a little over shotguns for a little while, but then shotties got a surge of popularity with the smaller maps and went well over.
Iron Banner:
http://guardian.gg/en/weapon-stats?platform=1&start=2016-07-05&end=2016-08-03&mode=19&activity=0
(SG, 19.5%. SR, 10.7%) - Most primaries are over snipers but under shotguns.
Rift:
http://guardian.gg/en/weapon-stats?platform=1&start=2016-07-05&end=2016-08-03&mode=24&activity=0
(SG avg, 15%. SR avg, 11%) - Most primaries are over both
Zone Control and Doubles not included because, well, they're not regular playlists. Elim not included because it is Trials, minus the rewards. IB is in because, while not a strictly regular playlist, it is a relevant one.
And there you have it really. Snipers can't be OP when other guns are consitiently doing better than it. Most notably shotguns, but the majority of the time primaries also average more kills.
English
#Destiny
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1 ReplyEdited by ch4rliehorse: 8/29/2016 3:19:32 PMNot necessarily disagreeing or saying that snipers are OP, just wanted to point out that the stats you're referencing only show kills by weapon in general - which isn't really a good stat to go on for the particular argument of snipers being OP relative to other weapons. A weapon being used more than another doesn't directly correlate to it being better...especially when there is far less ammo available for sniper rifles than for primaries. Plus for any particular game mode from the above stats where, say, auto rifles have a higher usage percentage than sniper rifles - there isn't a way to tell how many of the times people who got auto rifle kills got them against snipers. for you to say that because of the fact that two guys might have killed each other back and forth 10 times in a match with auto rifles, auto rifles are "better" than sniper rifles is skewed and untrue. People don't think snipers are OP cause they're getting more kills than any other weapon type - they think they're OP because they're able to break out of their intended archetype and compete with mid-close range weapons. Most people don't cry too much over a headshot from decent range - yeah it sucks but that's what a sniper is supposed to excel at. Most of the whiners are complaining over being mid kill using a primary on a sniper at mid-close range and getting quick scoped out of nowhere - and not such a small percentage of the time that it could just be luck. Those encounters - which happen all too often anymore - can't really be measured or quantified with stats. I'm with you that it's immature and pointless to angrily post a "____ is OP!" status as a reaction to getting killed by that thing. But at the same time, it's important to be careful not to stretch potentially out-of-scope (no pun intended) facts to fit a view we already have.
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BUMP BUMP BUMP
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2 RepliesAfter reading your post, great by the way, and reading some replies. I have a question, how is auto descoping hurting a sniper? I descope after most successful shots to check radar and change positions.
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Great post! The community really needs to be aware of these statistics.
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1 ReplyAlthough you have showed that shotgun usage is more than people think, it doesn't take away from the fact that primaries have a hard time challenging snipers. I'm not talking about hardscopers. I'm talking about engaging against snipers within their primary weapons effective range, and still getting blained after landing 2 shorts. It happens more often than it should.
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Thank you for your good work, Guardian
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I would like to formally acknowledge the time and effort you put into this post because not only does it answer the question in the title, but also provides insight on other weapons, as well as showing those who read the post where each gun performs best (which is a huge help for those looking to use a certain weapon effectively), and it also reveals a bit of insight on how the play styles of each game mode differentiate. To you and your post, I declare thee to be FRABJOUS!!!
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PvP flinch is fine. PvE flinch however... [spoiler]Needs to be toned the -blam!- down![/spoiler]
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2 RepliesHere, take this sniper and try shooting me in the head while I unload 20 rounds into you in 2 seconds [spoiler]it shouldn't be possible[/spoiler]
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7 RepliesShotguns need shot package back. Snipers are fine and always have been. We need to buff special weapon ammo reserves. Mid/Low RoF autos need a buff Mid/Low pulses need a buff Handcannons need bloom taken off. Scouts are fine. This is my personal opinion on how bungie should deal with the "snipers OP" situation. Snipers would be far less annoying if other things could compete. [spoiler]This is just [b]my[/b] opinion, so chill. Oh and nerf fusion rifles by .04%[/spoiler]
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Everything is fine except the flinch mechanic, it needs to revisited. Primary weapons all have effective ranges, there is no reason why someone who is under fire from a primary weapon(in the effective range of said primary) shoulder ever be able to pull of a shot. If a sniper can't get the first shot off, he/she has to be punished for it. Using NLB for a bit taught me that. The way Destiny is played is if they nerf snipers to hard a surge of shotguns enter the crucible and vice versa. Best bet is to Take back the sniper nerf from April Take back the shotgun nerf from December More maps in the rotation that are a mix of close to long range engaments.
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6 RepliesNo, they don't need a nerf. Snipers are 100% balanced at the moment, in my opinion. Most people base their opinions solely off Trials statistics, which doesn't make much sense to be honest. Trials is only a fraction of crucible, and lots of us prefer regular crucible over the elimination game type anyway. I love sniping, thousands of sniper kills from year one, but I never touched a shotgun until recently and I have to say, the change of playstyle is refreshing. Great job on pulling up all those statistics, hopefully people will actually read them instead of reading the title and replying mindlessly.
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2 Repliesi wouldnt say that theyre overpowered but as it stands the rest of the weapons arent powerful enough to be a proper counter against them leaving snipers as the strongest option available with no suitable substitutes or counters against them
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4 RepliesEdited by Myth: 8/5/2016 11:28:40 PMAdding more flinch or descope on hit in PvP would rectify most of the sniper hate. I like to snipe but getting fed up with losing to a sniper after already engaging with a primary.
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2 RepliesThe only thing that bothers me about snipers is getting one shot by them after I've pegged a few headshots on the guardian aiming at me, I feel like headshots should cause more flinch so that happens less. Still I don't think it's a huge problem, I'm just learning not to challenge like a cocky ass haha
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3 Replies
