Edit 4- Either people can't read, don't want to read, or they're stupid. I reworded the title so that aggressive douchebags who don't know that more damage reduction means LESS damage taken won't think I'm trying to get Bladedancers nerfed.
Edit 3rd time- Tarantella timer was too high. Someone in the comments corrected me on that. Thank you.
Edit again- Health values were still too low. Now updated with better math because I somehow messed up. Also, please don't argue that a shotgun melee can kill a sunsinger, or that a snipe can. If played properly neither of those situations will ever happen.
Edit- my Health values were all too low. Now updated with stuff from this source.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/3jdlbm/exact_pvp_player_hp_values_for_all_armor_builds/?st=iqx675xj&sh=8b31b8db
It's simple really. Take these numbers if you would: 204, 221, 198
Factor in max achievable armor and now add 50% more to each.
(New numbers taken from someone in the comments. Thank you.)
Max armor Sunsinger/Stormcaller = ~408 HP
Max armor RS Sunsinger = ~448/9 HP
Max armor Bladedancer = ~398 HP
Max armor Sunbreaker = ~400 HP
Now look at the methods of survivability when utilizing the super.
Sunbreaker= able to create overshields, gain health on kill, attack from mid or close range, never needs to stop moving full speed or come within shotgun range, can be paired with the Garrison for even more effective dodging. Flame charge can also be used as an evasive maneuver.
Sunsinger= able to gain an overshield with melee kills, can still utilize all weapons including those with healing properties, and benefits greatly from having good gun skill.
Stormcaller= able to heal fully on activation, can dodge with a teleport on land or in the air by using a small portion of energy, moves faster than any class in the game, and is capable of strafing at sprinting speed, all while attacking around 15 feet away without ever needing to sit still, or come within shotgun range.
Bladedancer= able to heal on kill, can use the now highly telegraphed and laggy blink, able to turn invisible by using a moderate portion of energy AND sitting stationary during the process, can use attacks to dodge at the cost of running down the super and netting significantly less kills.
Now look at counters for each super when used in their most efficient way.
Hammer of Sol- Run away, Snipers or heavy ammo (Jumping doesn't work on good sunbreakers)
Radiance- Run away, sniper or heavy ammo (Outside of self res, sunsingers will use their abilities to net their kills or push the enemies into harm's way. Not rushing them to get shotgunned down or panic supered)
Stormtrance- Snipers or heavy ammo (stormtrancers are faster than you unless you run MIDA)
Arcblade- Run away, Snipers, Shotguns, heavy ammo, panic supers, overshields, grenades +primary, (when combined with shooting) primary + melee, sidearm +melee
Now look at the time it takes to build each super as well as potential activation bonuses.
HoS- 4mins. Able to outright KILL other supers on activation with scorched earth, and creates an overshield with firekeeper.
Radiance- 3:40. Can be activated while dead. Able to blind all nearby foes. Can also aid in ally ability charge.
Stormtrance- 4mins -time for Electrostatic mind, - even more time for Rising Storm (which can be used frequently with Feedback, potentially reducing the time to nearly 3 mins if you engage in melee fights each time your health is full. Able to outright kill other supers on activation with Landfall which can be granted by an exotic.
Arcblade- 4mins - 32sec for Tarantella. Can turn invisible on activation. If activated in the air you cannot attack until you land however. ( I think that's a bug but I dunno)
[b]Summary for those who just can't stand to read on forums[/b]
All in all, this shows that Arcblade is the weakest offensively and defensively, has the worst survivability because less health = less gain from Damage Reduction, has the least methods of attacking while remaining safe, and is the only super of it's kind to force you to combat your counters in order to benefit from it. Rounded down, Arcblade would need a 25% increase MINIMUM to have close to the same benefit of damage resistance as a stormcaller or radiant warlock rocking max armor and the ram (putting their health 3 points lower than the 448 that Warlocks get) This is a reasonable amount of resistance for a class that has to get up close and personal for a kill.
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[quote]Now look at counters for each super when used in their most efficient way. Hammer of Sol- Run away, Snipers or heavy ammo (Jumping doesn't work on good sunbreakers) Radiance- Run away, sniper or heavy ammo (Outside of self res, sunsingers will use their abilities to net their kills or push the enemies into harm's way. Not rushing them to get shotgunned down or panic supered) Stormtrance- Snipers or heavy ammo (stormtrancers are faster than you unless you run MIDA) Arcblade- Run away, Snipers, Shotguns, heavy ammo, panic supers, overshields, grenades +primary, (when combined with shooting) primary + melee, sidearm +melee Now look at the time it takes to build each super as well as potential[/quote] This is where I noticed you are just a baby. The same way you have to kill a arc blade goes for all supers, I've killed more self res with a shotgun then a sniper. I can get away from a stormcaller without even trying, they have the slowest roaming super, unless you use the teleport. You are just bad end of story
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OP is clearly biased. I've shotgun melee killed sunbreakers before. It's not impossible.
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6 RepliesYou can't run from a blade dancer. Nor can you solo shoot/kill one. You already have health regen per kill. TLDR: No.
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OP is clearly biased. I've shotgun melee killed sunbreakers before. It's not impossible.
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6 RepliesSo you want give arc blade more health than sunbreaker? No.
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They should increase agility instead of armor
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3 RepliesEdited by What I Look Like: 7/26/2016 1:46:32 PMNone of you seem to understand all of this is intentional. Bungie, for whatever reason, has decided to balance this game on waves. They gave Hunters the spotlight for quite a while, then Warlocks. They've moved on to Titans now. The thing is, by making one class the alpha, you're feeding into the bravado of those players. They feel amazing when throwing lightning grenades and running into defender shields to FoH. Makes you want to play more. By feeding into the class warfare they have made sure you all are constantly distracted. This leaves them room to throw out a slew of stealth buffs and nerfs that no one ever hears about. Think about it; have lightning grenades always been so potent? [i]No[/i]. If you're a gunslinger I think you also know that our super uptime is complete and utter shit compared to what it used to be, too. Edit - I will say arc blade could use another 2 to 3% raise in armor. Nothing insane, but it has to be noticeable.
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AHHH no
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They're fine. I intentionally use my "panic" super to shut roaming supers down because there really isn't any other use for it. Hunters ARE NOT airborne killers. They are very ground based. Run fleet footed to catch up with slower players easily while also staying on the ground. Bones of eao with better control can get you zooming in a bit less predictable manner than blink. Reason is because blink has been almost staple to every voidlock and archunter that most people have learned how to counter it very effectively. Just a few points have fun out there. Also if you want quickdraw over fleet footed, which is fine, don't complain too much your super isn't that strong/fast.
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Sorry, no super triggered to shut down another super is a 'panic super'. It's a proper use of the instant super. Kill one to save three. I also saw just as many sunbreakers and storm callers get Titan smashed during last week's IB.
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Naahhh...
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I don't think blade dancers should have more armour, because hunters are supposed to be quick and agile, not tanks. So I would say bring back year 1 blink and have max agility during blade dancers. That way blade dancers are really quick and easy to kill, so they're easy to kill bust hard to keep track of.
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3 RepliesInvisibility is a pretty big bonus. The recent change that makes you invisible immediately on activation creates some possibilities that no other super has; namely, to get into the middle of a pack of enemies before they even realize you're coming.
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I'd honestly rather it go back to how it was during HoW. Skips, Arcbolt, blink, blink strike, and quick draw need to go back to how they were.
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I fought an arc blade and it took a point blank unimote and fist to kill him. He also killed me so I don't see why you think they need more. Video proof. http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/POWERSLAY/video/19943396
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Edited by High Charity: 7/26/2016 12:49:22 PMI'd rather it have more mobility than armor. An active arc blade should be the fastest way to move by foot in the game.
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8 RepliesJust shut up
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Shotgun melee & Sniper headshot do kill Sunsinger how do you argue this lol.
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4 RepliesYa but they are fine now. They are hard to kill with their agility and health regen. Unless 3 guardians are shooting at him from distance he will win every battle
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Not according to the data. BD is the best subclass by far at the moment.
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1 ReplyAgreed blade dancer thought he'd clutch against me in trials popped him with a sniper one shot. Definitely needs a tweek. But then again against uncoordinated players it is fine.
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13 RepliesStop whining, blade used to be way too op.
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I agree with the reply below me. Plus arc blade is harder to hit. Just keep swinging. It can waste your super but if you use it too early it can save your life. People treat storm callers and blade dancers the same honestly. And I could be wrong but all sprint speed are the same unless enhanced by headstrong, keen scout, or fleet footed.
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3 RepliesDo you remember the days when arcblade was unkillable? Ya we never want that terror again. As long as I can stand my ground and either shotgun + melee or fusion + melee to kill a rampaging dancer I dont care what you do to it but that must remain possible if they rush straight forward at me.
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3 RepliesArcblade is one of two supers that I outright run from. That and stormtrance are the only supers that I feel genuinely lucky to survive running into. Especially stormcallers, guys are assholes
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Edited by zane: 7/26/2016 12:36:05 PMI love how you listed 1 or 2 counters for the other roaming supers, and then for arcblade it was like everything in the game that kills stuff. Like I get you're trying to make a point, but I'm pretty sure arcblade isn't the only roaming super that can be Fist O' Panic'd or Panic Bombed. And a primary might work if the bladedancer is across the map and runs straight at you the entire way. Edit: Had the wrong "you're"