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Edited by The Sword Logic:
6/12/2016 2:53:17 PM
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Rise of Iron and PvP: Don't build upon a broken foundation
Very little was mentioned about PvP in the stream, but what they did mention left me a little worried. New maps and modes sound great, but I'd rather see some of The Crucible's major issues addressed first. If somehow Bungie can do both (improve PvP [i]and[/i] add to PvP), that would be awesome, but I think more than a few people would agree that there are some major issues in the Crucible that aren't going to be corrected by new maps and modes.
We need more attention paid to geography in matchmaking. We need players with very poor connections to be barred from the match (instead of only using damage referee). We need weak classes of guns strengthened (no more nerfs; only buffs). We need game modes with Grimoire components to be permanent playlists. We need to take a look at whether or not the heavy and special ammo nerfs were at all effective.
Most of all, we need to reevaluate how skill-based matchmaking works. Maybe it's an anomaly, but I've never played more one-sided matches than I have of late. This is evident from how quickly the score limit is being reached in all game modes. Hearing "They've almost won" within 30 seconds of "Only five minutes left" shows that the teams are extremely uneven.
No one benefits from having an inexperienced player in a match with highly skilled guardians; the inexperienced player gets wrecked for 12 minutes and his superior teammates have to deal with the fact that someone on their team gave away 20 deaths worth of points.
We need to take a look at what stats/metrics are used in matchmaking and question whether or not they are still as relevant as they were when the game started.
At any rate, Rise of Iron looks blam-ing awesome and I will be pre-ordering my copy just as soon as Xbox players are cool enough to do so. I'm sure it's gonna be a blast even if these issues persist. But with all this time, why not make year three as good as possible? That cannot happen if the Crucible remains in its current state.
EDIT: There have been a couple (totally justified) comments about my perceived stance on SBMM. I just want to clear up what I meant so we can stay on point:
I hate the current SBMM just as much as the next guardian. I'm not saying that I want the current SBMM system to be maintained and built upon; I'm saying the exact opposite. SBMM needs to be removed and totally reworked from the ground up to make it A) relevant in the current meta and B) behind CBMM and GBMM in importance.
All the comments here have been mature, civil and constructive (save for one; but the appropriate level of ownage was doled out by my fellow guardians, so all is well). So I'm not making this edit as an argument to anything that anyone said. [b]I[/b] was unclear and I just wanted to rectify my own error.
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I will never consider playing this game again until sbmm is completely gone from crucible/ib matchmaking.
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It will be the fall of destiny not rise of iron if they don't get off their ass WITH A HOT FIX
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DO IT NOW VOTE HERE AND FIX DESTINY ONCE AND FOR ALL https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/206833892/0/0 Ps: Spread/spam the word
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2 RepliesAfter yet another nerf patch, you'd still consider even buying the dlc? Pre-order? Eek!
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Add a ranked playlist for SBMM and make it CBMM for non ranked. Bungie could easily do this, the one ranked playlist could be on wins and losses and have your rank showed off in game
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3 RepliesEdited by briosheje: 6/14/2016 8:09:08 AMGood points. Also, to keep an eye to the crucible, I would like to see: 1) No random joining in clash matches: if the match search is truly skill-based, then I cannot understand how you can pretend to push me in a clash match that started 10 minutes ago where there is the first player with 23 kills done already, while I start with 0. 2) Skill-Based matches should be skill-based. Anyone familiar with trials of osiris knows what I mean, if you take a look at destinytracker you will probably notice that most of the times you are matched with inferior or superior guardians, the ELO difference is sometimes absolutely UNFAIR, you cannot pretend to make three 900 elo playes play with three 1600 elo players, that just should NOT happen. It's not addictive and very frustrating to match opponents that are not at your level (in both directions), sometimes I feel I'm a bad person when I meet lower level players and just destroy them with my team. And I feel even more disappointed when I suddenly gets matched with 2000 elo players who just wrecks my team without even taking the game too seriously. 3) In trials of osiris, avoid matching the same opponents TWICE in a row (or even in the same ticket). Seriously. Prevent it from happening. If a team gets wrecked once 5-0, don't allow that team to meet THE SAME team again in the same ticket (or even in a row, like sometimes happens). Spoiler below showing an example: [spoiler] trials of osiris, Pantheon 6/10/2016 (MONTH/DAY/YEAR) : Match for the 6th victory: http://destinytracker.com/dg/5104716600 Match for the 7th victory: http://destinytracker.com/dg/5104751286 Full history of Pantheon: http://destinytracker.com/destiny/query/xbox/Briosheje?mode=14&startDate=2016-06-10&endDate=2016-06-14&characterId=2305843009225125009 Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE that such should've happened? we just ruined the lighthouse to these guys, and they didn't deserve it. Losing 5-1 once and getting matched against the same team next time? what were they supposed to do? black magic? :) [/spoiler] 4) [spoiler]PVP Generic ruleset: I do understand that this point is probably personal, but I think that some classes and subclasses needs to be reseen. As suggested by the topic, everything probably needs to be buffed instead of nerfed, but by playing osiris and crucible with every single class and subclass I think that still much have to be done, some builds are just excessively overpowered compared to some other, and doesn't really require to master any skill to win a match. This is a personal opinion, though.[/spoiler] Edit:: Today (06/14/2016) (again month day year format) bungie is apparently rebalancing (once again) the classes and subclasses. After reading the balancing stuff, apart from making warlock's firebolt grenates less OP, I personally think that other main issues still needs to be addressed.. but this may be my opinion only :P 5) PVP netcode: Not sure if I'm the only one, but I'm personally finding ridiculous that it happens so many times that two guardians snipes themselves in the same exact moment. It happens so often that I'm getting disgusted from it. Just take a look at that event, sometimes I snipe a guy, die immedialy and he dies like 2 seconds later. That just should never ever happen. Even the opposite (or both combined, like I snipe him, he snipes me, I die first and he dies like half a second after). 6) PVP drops: With the last update we've seen more equipable items dropping from PVP modes. However, as a PVP player, I can surely tell that both artifacts AND shells are just too rare. I cannot level to 335 doing crucible only, while it takes about less than 2 weeks doing PVE only. having a chance to drop a 335 shell or artifact in pvp would be great to be honest. EDIT:: Yet another important point: 7) If one / two players crashes in a trials of osiris match, ALLOW THEM TO JOIN BACK. How is it meant to happen? are you serious? I get kicked of the game for no reasons, I get a lost game for NO REASONS and I can't even join it back? Losses should be counted when the match ENDS, not when a player gets randomly kicked off the game. I know that it probably is very hard to implement (because if a player leaves it may not count as a loss for some reasons), but this problem seriously needs to be addressed, many players (even streamers, lol) have lost so many lighthouses because of it.
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7 RepliesEdited by ae_oakly: 6/19/2016 4:48:20 PMYou can't really control how good people are at the game. I for one, according to Destiny Tracker am a "diamond tier" player in most of the pvp playlists. Are you going to be a person that gets angry at people like me for playing and stomping your "crappy team" because we don't have SBMM? I am by no means saying I want SBMM, as even sweaties don't want to sweat all the time.
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Very little has been mentioned above anything yet. 3 months to go.
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It's just the Harpole again no animals are so yeah is is foreign!
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1 ReplyIn my opinion, there probably won't be any significant changes to PvP until Destiny 2. While it is not ideal, Bungie is learning and listening. I suspect positive changes will be made for Destiny 2. There simply isn't enough time to make and test the kind of changes we are hoping for. Of course, limiting Rise of Iron to PS4 and XB1 only, may prove me wrong.
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You all think you understand broken. No this is broken. Fear this squirrel.
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I hope they fix pvp. It's the only other pvp I enjoy besides Eso. Guess we won't truly know anything until the official reveal at e3 and whatnot since the info they gave were just reveal details. Not too in depth
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PvP sucks, iron banner mayhem once a month, problem solved.
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6 Repliesthey can just do away with PVP for all I or any other PVE'er cares.
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2 RepliesI just wish they'd fix some of the old Crucible maps. Shores of Time is still incredibly one sided if your team can't hold B & C, and on Rusted Lands the team that spawns closest to C can run to B before the other team can even reach A.
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2 Replies"No more nerfs, only buffs" This I wholeheartedly agree with, I'm super concerned that brand new cool unique exotics will be destroyed by CryNerfers...I've prepped a ton and it would be very disappointing to have my cool new stuff have a lifespan of 1 day...
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Edited by Revanchist1ab: 6/12/2016 11:04:59 PMAgreed. Not much that I can add... Here's hoping this trends for long enough for Bungie to give a darn.
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1 ReplyDid you even watch the stream? They even said there will be more streams and they will discuss pvp.
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1 ReplyI agree with you except for the matchmaking part. A simple solution would be to add a Ranked Playlist which allows players the option to be competitive or just to sit back and relax
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10 RepliesTake your pvp and shove it up your goddamn ass. Pvp is a disease that infects the game of destiny.
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Edited by Viron117: 6/12/2016 8:53:40 PM[spoiler][quote]Very little was mentioned about PvP in the stream, but what they did mention left me a little worried. New maps and modes sound great, but I'd rather see some of The Crucible's major issues addressed first. If somehow Bungie can do both (improve PvP [i]and[/i] add to PvP), that would be awesome, but I think more than a few people would agree that there are some major issues in the Crucible that aren't going to be corrected by new maps and modes. [/quote][/spoiler] I would say that imo that this is their usual roll out of dlc. Talk about it, say what it is first, get into the nitty gritty in the weeks to come. I'd be a little confused if they just straight told us everything in it, in detail, 3 whole months before it would come out. They want the slow build, the hype train to keep chugging along; even slowly is still going. [spoiler][quote]We need more attention paid to geography in matchmaking. We need players with very poor connections to be barred from the match (instead of only using damage referee). We need weak classes of guns strengthened (no more nerfs; only buffs). We need game modes with Grimoire components to be permanent playlists. We need to take a look at whether or not the heavy and special ammo nerfs were at all effective. [/quote][/spoiler] Eeeeehh... what are you considering "very poor connection"? Is it based off one game with someone? That Peer to peer they've got isn't always friendly and does make people look like purely bad connection, considering it's their connection to the host. So for most its because they have a hard time connecting to that one person. I had a guy friday call me a cheater and trash, because apparently, i had been red barring that match when he looked, and he was likely what people would call "salty" ( strange thing to call someone imo). Gonna check in on him in a week, see how those resources he has haven't made any headway in my banning :P As for other points here, yes omg someone advocating buffs, such a rare gem, yes to those with grimiore components, never thought of it, and yes to looking at the ammo nerfs. I doubt people try to stock up on special like crazy, i feel its i have a clip, better watch out for more. Felt the heavy double nerf was a bit much; reduce overall amount AND make it only spawn once? a bit much. [spoiler][quote]Most of all, we need to reevaluate how skill-based matchmaking works. Maybe it's an anomaly, but I've never played more one-sided matches than I have of late. This is evident from how quickly the score limit is being reached in all game modes. Hearing "They've almost won" within 30 seconds of "Only five minutes left" shows that the teams are extremely uneven. [/quote][/spoiler] Kind of makes it feel like the whole things regressing. Has the supposed unevenness of CBMM that SBMM was supposed to fix, but now we've got connection problems. Not to mention the almost rampant cases of joining a game near completion on the losing side, supporting your thoughts on how skill based matchmaking is getting lopsided. Saw a post on reddit, a gif, where he was joining a match, and while ships were flying in hes taking damage, and would you look at that; its over, lost by about 6-7k. As for the rest of what you said, its pretty much just nodding in agreement, so this line of text was made.
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6 RepliesThe most important metric for Control type playlists, should be points per minute tbh (as long as the KD isn't negative). I agree with a lot of what you said.
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Bump.
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Preordering just ruins the game more and more. Remember TTK? Preordered for $50, almost the price of a full other game, for a loss of more content than it added and tons of bugs. STOP PREORDERING
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[quote]We need more attention paid to geography in matchmaking.[/quote] As long as the connection is stable, no, they don't. [quote]Most of all, we need to reevaluate how skill-based matchmaking works.[/quote] CBMM vs SBMM or as I describe it: Games where evenly matched opponents with lag potentially because gamers control their internet meets no fun, but not everyone lags because players are from one end of the spectrum to the other. I'll take SBMM because that is more likely to resolve the issue. [quote]No one benefits from having an inexperienced player in a match with highly skilled guardians[/quote] The more skillful player enjoys their time while the one who wants to walk around with a gun gets that feeling as well.
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I DON'T CARE WHO I FIGHT , I CARE ABOUT CONNECTION , YOU WILL NEVER BE GOOD OR BAD IN THIS GAME WHEN THE CRUCIBLE IS RED BAR 99% OF THE TIME . yes the caps >>> intentional .
