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Edited by Acepilot003: 5/30/2016 11:25:18 PM
36

Rasputin may have actually prevented the Traveler from leaving

This theory has been out in reddit and on the forums for awhile now but I have come to certain realizations on certain evidence that further proves it (somewhat of a gestalt change). I have linked one of the earlier reddit posts about the theory (albeit on the opposing side) and will defer to that post to detail the theory more in depth than I will here. [b](TL;DR)[/b] Rasputin used Caedometric weapons to prevent the Traveler from leaving (Ghost Fragment: The Traveler 3) [b]Hypothesis:[/b] Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 5 Rasputin, with no conference from humans or other AI's, details a contingency plan. If certain parameters that deal with a threat to civilization are met (Carrhae White, Security State:Egyptian, Skyshock event, Voluspa failure, Yuga Sundown, Civilization Kill Event, and Midnight Exigent; All defined in reddit post) and the departure of the traveler compromises human survival then Rasputin will prevent the departure of the traveler by any means. Specifically, he mentions, [b]"Caedometric and Noetic Release"[/b] in his Loki Crown initiative. Caedo- means to cut or hew and Noetic relates to intellect or mental activity. Ghost Fragment: The Darkness Sometime after the contingency plan is set forth (unclear timeline as the time stamps on Rasputin's communiques are nigh indecipherable), Rasputin detects an event outside of the solar system. He does not know what caused it or its nature but he knows IT is coming and fast. He deems it a Skyshock level event, activates Yuga and Voluspa, puts the security state to Isis (egyptian reference), and enacts Carrhae White. This satisfies some conditions of his contingency plan. Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 3 Shortly after he detects the event, Rasputin initiates an immediate action order. He declares that collapse is imminent. Rasputin detects that Voluspa is in failure, Yuga is in Sundown, a Hard Civilization Kill Event is in progress, and his morality structure is now in Midnight Exigent. This thus fills all necessary criteria for his contingency plan to become active except for the notification that the Traveler is about to depart (which it has been known to do at the end of a civilization; see Books of Sorrow XIX: Crusaders and XLV: I'd Shut them All in Cells). Ghost Fragment: The Traveler 2 Here is where it gets interesting. Many claim that Rasputin did not enact his contingency plan because the Traveler did not mean to depart. And this card is often sourced. The Dreams of Alpha Lupi are obscure and could be seen different ways. There is one line, however, that says "This will be the place you will fight. Fight and Win." This could be Rasputin declaring the Traveler to stay and fight. Rebuttal Another typical critique is that there is no evidence that Rasputin actually kept the Traveler on Earth (or wherever it was at the time). The lack of evidence is actually in favor of the theory that he did keep it here. Going back to Rasputin 5, Rasputin's Loki Crown grants him deniable authorization, meaning he has plausible deniability that he actually enacted his plan. This explains the lack of evidence (albeit, there is some as I will detail below). Ghost Fragment: Mysteries Here we see a description of Rasputin's encounter with IT, or the Darkness. Specifically, Rasputin says "I fought IT with [b]aurora knives[/b] and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp..." Looking back to Rasputin's Caedometric weapons capabilities, it is entirely plausible aurora knives and Caedometric weapons are synonymous. Stolen un-fire of singularities is more ambiguous but could also just be another description of these weapons. Wherever the Traveler goes there have been reports of paracausal/caedometric weapons (Books of Sorrow XVI: The Sword Logic, XXV: Dictata Ir Dakaua, and Ghost Fragment: Old Russia). It is at least plausible Rasputin calls it stolen un-fire because he "stole" the Caedometric tech before the Traveler gave it to humanity, or at least invented it independently and later learned the Traveler had it. Ghost Fragment: The Traveler 3 Here is the crux of my argument. As I have outlined before, Caedometric weapons that Rasputin definitively had and used during the collapse, deal with knives or cutting at least metaphorically. In this Dream of Alpha Lupi, the Traveler is pinned down by a knife. [b]"The knife had a million blades. And you were giant, powerful and swift. But the knife pinned you. Cut your godly flesh away." It is likely that Rasputin used his Caedometric capabilities to enact his contingency plan and prevent the traveler from leaving. [/b] In addition, the card also states "Very little was left, you are sure, because you feel insignificant now... The knife stole much more than your body." This could be explained by a Noetic release, or a mental attack, that is also described in Rasputin's contingency plan. Inference Now this is a little more than speculation, it is an inference. One conclusion from a set of data. There could be other causes for the effects gleaned from this evidence and I am open to further discussion or refutation. Please let me know if you believe I have missed something. [i]Sub-Hypothesis:[/i] Alternatively, Rasputin did not mean to use his "aurora knives" on the Traveler as the Traveler may not have actually tried to leave, but instead the Traveler was caught in the crossfire. We know that Rasputin did indeed use these weapons (Ghost Fragment: Mysteries) on the Darkness, albeit to little effect. However, we do not know the full nature of the weapons so it is plausible that the Traveler was inadvertently targeted and injured nonetheless.

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  • Isn't the Knife in Ghost Fragment: Traveler 3 supposed to represent Oryx? Like in the Taken Grimoire, it said 'There is a knife for you. It is shaped like [Enticement]' And the Hive have been following the Traveler, and have cases of them stealing parts (cutting it's godly flesh away) of the Traveler to experament on.

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  • Yes and no. yes he did damage it and cause the damage to it that we see in game. But no he didnt prevent it from leaving. The dreams of alpha lupi which is a story ach told from the travelers perspective tell us that the traveler had decidec, after running so many times from the darkness, that he would stay and fight with humanity this time. But Rasputin who logically guessed that the traveler would leave like it did in the case fo the fallen, damaged it so it could not leave, tho, as I explained before, it was not necessary because the traveler had already consciously decided to stay.

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  • We really need to abduct a Bungie lore writer and settle this debate. Maybe next twitch screening or something.

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    • Yep the theory has been accepted by the lore community for a while. Rasputin nuked the traveler to use a weapon of light against the darkness. Then he went into hibernation until such time as he could actually beat the darkness.

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    • This is already widely accepted as the mainstream theory.

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    • Rasputin never enacted Loki Crown. And in one of the Rasputin cards it says he tried to fight It and failed. BUT. He mentions the Gardener. And how she stayed and fought even though she lost, and she had more power than him. This reference is obviously the Traveller, so while the idea or possibility that Rasputin fired at her, on purpose or by accident, is implied and mentioned, its not likely at all.

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    • I Believe this is the reason rasputin doesnt work with gardians or at least he didnt use to until the sleeper stuff. In the saber strike zavala said that the last team sent to make contact with rasputin their bodies were scattered across the cosmodrome. Gardians are agents of the traveler so rasputin could be paranoid of the traveler seeking revenge for crippling it

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    • You're a bit late

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    • This was known for a long time now. The traveler was going to stay and fight, but it was going to cause the extinction of the human race. Rasputin's primary concern was to defend humanity so he nuked the traveler.

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      • Yeah no Rasputin crippled the Traveler, that's old news, get with the Rise of Iron

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        • Understood. We'll buff Sunsinger then?

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          • Disagree. Just because Rasputin had a contingency plan, doesn't mean he used it. Also, his contingency plan is full of conditional statements, not all of those conditions were met. Rasputin shut down before he activated LOKI CROWN. The Traveller herself indicated that Earth was where she would stand and fight, and that was [b]before[/b] Rasputin was even created. Also, "IT" is the Darkness, not the Traveller. That same card indicates that the Traveller (referred to as the Gardner) also fought back against the Darkness.

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            • and people say destiny has no story. i know, i know, "its not in the gaem!" but i rather like it this way: you, yes YOU, need to dig deep to find it. you need to play the game and find its secrets then retreat home, off of the battlefield, and decipher what you found. and then decipher it further, because what we find is only pieces, snipets, little single cards of a whole deck.

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              • It's a lot of inference and spinfoil hat logic trying to make controversy where there is none. If you read the card it says Rasputin had a protocol in place in case the Traveler tried to leave and nothing else. It never said that the Traveler tried to leave, only that there was a contingency if it happened.

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                • Nice.

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                • This is a blossom theory so to say, but what if the traveler was damaged by Rasputin and that's what made it "lose its voice." Rasputin was the cause of the great battle. Perhaps the traveler had sensed the darkness coming, and was going to abandon us as it did the fallen. Then Rasputin shot it down so it couldn't leave.

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                • Edited by sionat: 5/31/2016 9:05:02 PM
                  Or Rasputin calculated that the Traveler would depart if certain conditions were met and did so when they were, regardless whether the traveler was going to or not. Is is plausible that the Traveler had no intention of fleeing again, but Rasputin attacked anyway due to the pre-emptive decision it reached to do so. Also, the Traveler is tore up from the bottom side facing Earth, like it came from Earth perhaps.

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                • Yep basically the traveler would have abandoned us like every other race if Rasputin hadn't forced it to stay

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                • Interesting theory, reminds me of Mass Effect all over again... and how the writers shut down the indoctrination theory when it would have made the story 100 times better. I'll keep my expectations low on the story details, for all we know some things might never be answered by Bungie.

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                • I still stand by my theory that the traveller and/or the speaker aren't who they say they are. Why do you think the disciples of Osiris are so distrusting of the speaker.

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                  • 1
                    russia's greatest love machine did 9/11

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                  • Cade is Rasputin.

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                  • Was this sent out via internet explorer on windows 98?

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                    • The Traveler wanted to stay and fight the Darkness but from possibly old habits or the fact that something else is driving the Traveler across the galaxy and the Traveler cannot control itself. I think that the Traveler wanted to stay and fight but was being driven to leave and so Rasputin shot her down.

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                      • rasputin does everything he can to increase the chances of his and the human races survival. from what we knew on the traveler rasputin thought that the traveler was going to leave and the simulation he ran showed the best chance for survival was to shoot down the traveler so it would still protect them. BUT, if you read the dreams of alpha lupi grimoire cards it shows that the traveler was actually going to stay on earth as a last stand and fight against the darkness.

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                      • I didn't read any of it. Rasputin shot a rocket at the Traveler which is why the bottom of it is so badly injured and yes that's why it wasn't able to leave.

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