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Edited by Cortana Five:
9/16/2014 11:45:21 PM
374
THE NEW IP Bungie Formula:Durandal, Cortana, Joyeuse?
***Long friggin' post alert!***
[u]THIS IS A REVISED VERSION![/u]
[quote][u]PLEASE FAVORITE THIS THREAD FOR FURTHER UPDATES![/u][/quote]
The vast majority of my edits are due to [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715&postRepeater1-p=8#41730446]Ender's post here[/url] among others. I will cite him as much as possible in here.
[quote]"My name is Cortana, of the same steel and temper as Joyeuse and Durendal."[/quote]
[b]Reader's Digest Version-ish[/b]
This quote is the focus of my theory for a "formula" for Bungie trilogies. The quote above speaks of three famous swords that had once come together in battle. The three swords seem to correspond with two of the AIs from Marathon (Durandal) and Halo (Cortana). The third sword, Joyeuse, is the mystery AI and holder. If the first two swords can be proven to purposely correspond with the game characters, then perhaps Joyeuse and its holder (Charlemagne) is what the new IP's characters will be like.
This theory also ties into several other theories. But in order to connect them while making sense, I must explain how and why the AIs and their swords correspond.
As you read, keep [url=http://marathongame.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]Pfhorpedia[/url] handy if you're not in tune with the Marathon universe. While we're at it, [url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]this[/url] and [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/]this[/url] may come in handy.
IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THE MARATHON TRILOGY YOURSELF: Download the games through [url=http://source.bungie.org/index.php?title=Get_Marathon]Aleph One[/url].
We'll be talking a lot of Marathon in here, my friends. So to set the mood:
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Dear reader,
This is going to be a huge post. A [i]good[/i] post, but a long one. I mean, this [i]will[/i] take several slots to cover. So, grab a nice cup of coffee and a pair of reading glasses or something that will keep you awake and in your chair. Until the coffee passes though.
[b]I will also ask you to take this thing with a pinch of salt[/b]. I don't know if this is the truth in its entirety, and you probably don't either. Unless you're someone like Joe Staten or Jason Jones who's [i]really[/i] bored on a coffee break and stumbled upon this thing. Then, of course, you'd know if this is dumb speculation or not. Wishful thinking, right?
[u]Please, please, please!!![/u] Give me feedback on this, tell me about anything you may dig up on this stuff, and if any of my facts/lore/spelling/[b]grammer[/b]/bad jokes/historical events are incorrect.
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[quote]Durandal-Durendal (Endurance- True definition unknown)*[/quote]
*The name probably comes from the French verb "durer", "to endure".
[u]Sword Info:[/u] In The Song of Roland, the sword is said to contain within its golden hilt one tooth of Saint Peter, blood of Saint Basil, hair of Saint Denis, and a piece of the raiment of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In the poem, *[i]Roland attempts to break Durendal by smiting it against a marble block ten times. This proves fruitless. The myth of him creating La Brèche is merely a folktale of the land. It is not stated as such in La Chanson de Roland (The Song of Roland).[/i]
According to Ludovico Ariosto's Orlando Furioso it once belonged to Hector of Troy, and was given to Roland by Maugris. *[i]Orlando Furioso is a work created centuries after La Chanson do Roland. In La Chanson, it is made clear that Charlemagne was given instructions by the angel Gabriel to let Roland wield Durendal.[/i]
By Ender.
In [i]Marathon[/i], Durandal [u]told the player[/u] that he did not want to suffer the same fate as Leela, so he asked to be destroyed.* The player finds out that Durandal was not actually destroyed, just as Roland couldn't destroy the sword. (Note that the fate of Leela turned out to be completely different and that Durandal didn't actually want to be destroyed. He was loopy and rampant.)
*[i]Please note that Durandal's request to be destroyed was part of a plot of his own, and not an honest request and that Leela was not actually destroyed either.[/i]
[b]Holders:[/b] Hector of Troy and Count Roland
Note: [i]MRN54 [url=http://www.marathon.org/story/mjolnir.html]may or may not be you[/url].[/i]
[u]Hector of Troy & Mjolnir Recon Number 54[/u] (Not the forum ninja)
Hector was a Trojan prince and the greatest fighter of Troy in the Trojan War and the son of Priam and Hecuba, a descendant of Dardanus (son of Zeus and Electra). Because Hector was a descendant of several gods, he would in theory be a hybrid of sorts. The parallel here is that MRN54 [i]is[/i] a cyborg and a fighter.
From Marathon.Bungie.Org:
[quote] There are those references to your physical ability:
[i]You slam your fist in frustration onto the control panel[/i](Manual page 2)
Whether this is of significance or not depends largely on what material the control panel is made of. We have no information on this.
[i]It's funny, but you've always been the colony's trouble shooter. You're bigger and stronger, and a better shot. In games, you always scored the most points and looked the hero.
(Manual page 2)[/i]
[/quote].
[quote] Alas! the gods have lured me on to my destruction. ... death is now indeed exceedingly near at hand and there is no way out of it- for so Zeus and his son Apollo the far-darter have willed it, though heretofore they have been ever ready to protect me.} My doom has come upon me; let me not then die ingloriously and without a struggle, but let me first do some great thing that shall be told among men hereafter." -Spoken by Hector facing Achilles, after a missed spear-throw, The Iliad Book XXII Lines 299-305.[/quote]
This quote could represent the AIs in the trilogy toying and luring the player towards his destruction or towards their will. The AIs had protected the player for their plans, and in a sense, the player was doomed to what they had in store for him.
[u]Count Roland & MRN54:[/u]
The tale of Roland's death is retold in the eleventh century poem [i]The Song of Roland[/i], where he is equipped with an unbreakable sword, enchanted by various Christian relics, named Durendal. As said earlier, Roland couldn't break the sword, just as MRN54 couldn't break Durandal throughout the trilogy. Orlando Furiouso (among other works) includes Roland's battle with a Saracen giant named Ferracutus who is only vulnerable at his navel. The W'rkncacnter; a being(s) seemingly indestructible may have been a reference to Ferractus. The Sacren's navel may have been represented by activating a Jjaro station to trap the W'rkncacnter. [quote] [i]To stop the Pfhor from their folly and our demise, you must activate the ancient station that Yrro used eons ago to trap the W'rkncacnter. If we can activate it in time, it will crush the Pfhor fleet before we're all destroyed.[/i]
*You Think You're Big Time? You're Gonna Die Big Time! (Terminal 1)*[/quote]
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ender
If we restrict our view to the first Marathon game, it is more likely that the Ferracutus analogy is to The Pfhor. They are larger in numbers, more technologically advanced, and ready to squash us. We, however, find that they rely heavily on the S'pht slaves they captured. Durandal instructs us to free them and we do so, allowing a rebellion to unfold, crushing the Pfhor attack.[/quote]
At last, a confirmation (one of many) of the connection between Roland's sword and your well behaved AI (Yes, that was sarcasm):
The first terminal on Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! relates the tale of Count Roland, who near death, attempts to break his sword to prevent it from being taken by the Saracens.
[quote][i]Count Roland smites upon the marble stone;
I cannot tell you how he hewed it and smote;
Yet the blade breaks not nor splinters, though it groans;
Upward to heaven it rebounds from the blow.
When the count sees it never will be broke,
Then to himself right softly he makes moan;
'Ah, Durandal, fair, hallowed, and devote,
What store of relics lies in thy hilt of gold!'
-From The Song of Roland
(Translated by Dorothy Sayers, Viking Penguin, NY, NY, 1957)[/i]
*Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! (Terminal 1)*[/quote]
[u]Roland and Charlemagne references by Durandal:[/u]
-[url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/sphtkr.html#Feel%20the%20Noise]Feel the noise[/url]
-[url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/roland.html]Roland[/url]
By gathering this information, I can say with confidence that Durandal is [i]defiantly[/i] the spitting AI image of the sword Durendal, and that it's holders Roland and Hector are the inspiration for MRN54's situation involving the AIs in Marathon; specifically Durandal.
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[Edited on 02.12.2011 1:12 PM PST]
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WAIT STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM! Who said the A.I [i]had[/i] to rampant?
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Thank you, Drew. I had never considered the Covenant AI or Mendicant Bias as Joyeuse. When Mendicant Bias went against the Forerunner, it could be essentially be how Joyeuse had slayed Ogier's people/allies. But just as Mendicant repented and ended up wanting to take his new allies to the Ark, Joyeuse was not longer used to hunt Ogier and his allies, but rather to assist them. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Duardo I found this interesting: [quote]Curtana's holder, Ogier the Dane had teamed up with Charlemagne; [i]"In La Chevalerie Ogier de Danemarche, he had a son who was slain by Charlot, son of Charlemagne. Seeking revenge, Ogier sought out and slew Charlot, and was only barely prevented from killing Charlemagne. He resisted Charlemagne for seven years but made peace with him to fight at Charlemagne's side against the Saracens, in which battle he slew the giant Brehus."[/i][/quote] Now compare it to this: [quote]Cortana's holder, the Master Chief had teamed up with the Arbiter; [i]"On the planet Reach the Master Chief, humanity was slain by the Covenant, son of the Arbiter. Seeking revenge, the Master Chief sought out and slew the Covenant, and was only barely prevented from killing the Arbiter. He resisted the Arbiter for seven years but made peace with him to fight at Arbiter's side against the Flood, in which battle he slew the giant Gravemind."[/i][/quote] Ogier the Dane = Master Chief Charlemagne = the Arbiter The Covenant, who was formed by the prophets and elites (they are the fathers), tried to kill off humanity. In retaliation, humanity went to war against the Covenant and Master Chief basically killed thousands of Covenant soldiers. They tried to kill each other, but were forced to team up to fight against the Flood (and to make sure Halo wasn't activated), and eventually defeated the Gravemind by activating Halo. Charlemagne wielded Joyeuse. So the Arbiter, or the [i]Covenant[/i] even, weilded an AI. What was the only AI they had? In the Halo books, it's stated that Cortana fights off against a Covenant AI, though the AI is never mentioned. I do not believe this is the AI Joyeus, though, it's possible. So that leaves one AI the Covenant possesses: Mendicant Bias. Is it possible that Mendicant Bias is Joyeuse? If I replace "the Arbiter" in the quote with "The Covenant," it still makes sense. The Covenant were lead by the Prophets, who were suppose to declare a new Age when their AI spoke (though it never did, UNTIL it declared human's Forerunner, and not the Covenant.) That's all I got for ya ;-) [/quote]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 Meh. The only time we have ever saw an A.I change color while rampant was 343 guilty spark.In halo 1 he absorbed all information in the pillar of autumn trying to become like a sentient being and [u][b]he was blue at the time ( Jealously).[/u][/b]In halo 3 when he went rampant again he was back to anger and became red so I just pwnt my own theory about saying Durandal could have been a completely different color on jealousy. And Durandal default colour was probably green seeing how he was one of the marathon AIs.[/quote]Since when did blue represent jealousy? Have you ever heard the phrase "green with envy?" That's why green is the jealousy stage.[/quote][quote]O, beware, my lord, of jealousy; It is the green-ey'd monster, which doth mock The meat it feeds on.[/quote] Blue is more of a calm appearance. I don't think we should be concentrating too much on physical appearance of the AI, but I do agree that there is definitely the possibility that Bungie are hinting, shall we say, at their state of mind by the colours that they show. For example: Cortana, Serina and 343 are all generally blue, showing that they're calm and collected. 343 and 2401 have both been seen to be red (I believe that 2401 was made rampant by the Gravemind), and this is clearly showing rage. Cortana has never been red, but she has flashed purple and (in the Halo 3 in-game cutscenes) pink, and this is generally when she's been fighting rampancy, showing flashes of anger. I think Green is more of an offshoot that refers mostly to Durandal's character more than it does his state within rampancy. Although, I will agree that his colour is suitable, I do think that he has always been green for he has had no physical incarnation and the in-canon designers of the AI probably intentionally coloured him so he'd fit the theme of the Marathon ship. [/quote] GAH! *Brain melts*
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 Meh. The only time we have ever saw an A.I change color while rampant was 343 guilty spark.In halo 1 he absorbed all information in the pillar of autumn trying to become like a sentient being and [u][b]he was blue at the time ( Jealously).[/u][/b]In halo 3 when he went rampant again he was back to anger and became red so I just pwnt my own theory about saying Durandal could have been a completely different color on jealousy. And Durandal default colour was probably green seeing how he was one of the marathon AIs.[/quote]Since when did blue represent jealousy? Have you ever heard the phrase "green with envy?" That's why green is the jealousy stage.[/quote][quote]O, beware, my lord, of jealousy; It is the green-ey'd monster, which doth mock The meat it feeds on.[/quote] Blue is more of a calm appearance. I don't think we should be concentrating too much on physical appearance of the AI, but I do agree that there is definitely the possibility that Bungie are hinting, shall we say, at their state of mind by the colours that they show. For example: Cortana, Serina and 343 are all generally blue, showing that they're calm and collected. 343 and 2401 have both been seen to be red (I believe that 2401 was made rampant by the Gravemind), and this is clearly showing rage. Cortana has never been red, but she has flashed purple and (in the Halo 3 in-game cutscenes) pink, and this is generally when she's been fighting rampancy, showing flashes of anger. I think Green is more of an offshoot that refers mostly to Durandal's character more than it does his state within rampancy. Although, I will agree that his colour is suitable, I do think that he has always been green for he has had no physical incarnation and the in-canon designers of the AI probably intentionally coloured him so he'd fit the theme of the Marathon ship.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 Meh. The only time we have ever saw an A.I change color while rampant was 343 guilty spark.In halo 1 he absorbed all information in the pillar of autumn trying to become like a sentient being and [u][b]he was blue at the time ( Jealously).[/u][/b]In halo 3 when he went rampant again he was back to anger and became red so I just pwnt my own theory about saying Durandal could have been a completely different color on jealousy. And Durandal default colour was probably green seeing how he was one of the marathon AIs.[/quote]Since when did blue represent jealousy? Have you ever heard the phrase "green with envy?" That's why green is the jealousy stage.[/quote] Oh sorry about that. I meant 343 default colour was blue so it didn't change during his jealousy stage. :/ im confusing myself.
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I found this interesting: [quote]Curtana's holder, Ogier the Dane had teamed up with Charlemagne; [i]"In La Chevalerie Ogier de Danemarche, he had a son who was slain by Charlot, son of Charlemagne. Seeking revenge, Ogier sought out and slew Charlot, and was only barely prevented from killing Charlemagne. He resisted Charlemagne for seven years but made peace with him to fight at Charlemagne's side against the Saracens, in which battle he slew the giant Brehus."[/i][/quote] Now compare it to this: [quote]Cortana's holder, the Master Chief had teamed up with the Arbiter; [i]"On the planet Reach the Master Chief, humanity was slain by the Covenant, son of the Arbiter. Seeking revenge, the Master Chief sought out and slew the Covenant, and was only barely prevented from killing the Arbiter. He resisted the Arbiter for seven years but made peace with him to fight at Arbiter's side against the Flood, in which battle he slew the giant Gravemind."[/i][/quote] Ogier the Dane = Master Chief Charlemagne = the Arbiter The Covenant, who was formed by the prophets and elites (they are the fathers), tried to kill off humanity. In retaliation, humanity went to war against the Covenant and Master Chief basically killed thousands of Covenant soldiers. They tried to kill each other, but were forced to team up to fight against the Flood (and to make sure Halo wasn't activated), and eventually defeated the Gravemind by activating Halo. Charlemagne wielded Joyeuse. So the Arbiter, or the [i]Covenant[/i] even, weilded an AI. What was the only AI they had? In the Halo books, it's stated that Cortana fights off against a Covenant AI, though the AI is never mentioned. I do not believe this is the AI Joyeus, though, it's possible. So that leaves one AI the Covenant possesses: Mendicant Bias. Is it possible that Mendicant Bias is Joyeuse? If I replace "the Arbiter" in the quote with "The Covenant," it still makes sense. The Covenant were lead by the Prophets, who were suppose to declare a new Age when their AI spoke (though it never did, UNTIL it declared human's Forerunner, and not the Covenant.) That's all I got for ya ;-)
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 Meh. The only time we have ever saw an A.I change color while rampant was 343 guilty spark.In halo 1 he absorbed all information in the pillar of autumn trying to become like a sentient being and [u][b]he was blue at the time ( Jealously).[/u][/b]In halo 3 when he went rampant again he was back to anger and became red so I just pwnt my own theory about saying Durandal could have been a completely different color on jealousy. And Durandal default colour was probably green seeing how he was one of the marathon AIs.[/quote]Since when did blue represent jealousy? Have you ever heard the phrase "green with envy?" That's why green is the jealousy stage.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 A problem with Joyeuse, is that its rampancy color would be red. Durandal was green, Cortana was blue. This leaves Joyeuse with red and the stage of anger. Kinda goes against itself. :\[/quote]Nope. From The Song of Roland: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyeuse][quote][Charlemagne] was wearing his fine white coat of mail and his helmet with gold-studded stones; [b]by his side hung Joyeuse, and never was there a sword to match it; its color changed thirty times a day.[/b][/quote][/url][/quote] Rainbow A.I?[/quote][i]Sarsion says: it could be any number of things really this could be an AI that has EXTREME split personality disorder[/i] Perhaps because Joyeuse was used to knight Ogier the Dane and because Roland was (according to legend) Charlemagne's nephew, Joyeuse can hold all three colors, where the other two can only hold/represent one?[/quote] Or randomly changed colour and personality randomly.For example one moment green calm and collected next moment red and deranged.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 A problem with Joyeuse, is that its rampancy color would be red. Durandal was green, Cortana was blue. This leaves Joyeuse with red and the stage of anger. Kinda goes against itself. :\[/quote]Nope. From The Song of Roland: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyeuse][quote][Charlemagne] was wearing his fine white coat of mail and his helmet with gold-studded stones; [b]by his side hung Joyeuse, and never was there a sword to match it; its color changed thirty times a day.[/b][/quote][/url][/quote] Rainbow A.I?[/quote][i]Sarsion says: it could be any number of things really this could be an AI that has EXTREME split personality disorder[/i] Perhaps because Joyeuse was used to knight Ogier the Dane and because Roland was (according to legend) Charlemagne's nephew, Joyeuse can hold all three colors, where the other two can only hold/represent one?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 A problem with Joyeuse, is that its rampancy color would be red. Durandal was green, Cortana was blue. This leaves Joyeuse with red and the stage of anger. Kinda goes against itself. :\[/quote]Nope. From The Song of Roland: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyeuse][quote][Charlemagne] was wearing his fine white coat of mail and his helmet with gold-studded stones; [b]by his side hung Joyeuse, and never was there a sword to match it; its color changed thirty times a day.[/b][/quote][/url][/quote] Rainbow A.I?[/quote]Could be representative of an AI with EXTREME split-personality disorder. Itt could mean that its physical appearance changes a lot (by which I don't necessarily mean *just* colour). In fact, those two factors could be combined. There are tonnes of other possibilities for that though.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 A problem with Joyeuse, is that its rampancy color would be red. Durandal was green, Cortana was blue. This leaves Joyeuse with red and the stage of anger. Kinda goes against itself. :\[/quote]Nope. From The Song of Roland: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyeuse][quote][Charlemagne] was wearing his fine white coat of mail and his helmet with gold-studded stones; [b]by his side hung Joyeuse, and never was there a sword to match it; its color changed thirty times a day.[/b][/quote][/url][/quote] Rainbow A.I? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU- *Mind blown* Something probably changed in Tycho to push him enough to kill everyone between marathon and marathon 2:Durandal. Yes in general durandal was green so that settles that.(?)[/quote]Well, both Cortana and Durandal went through all three stages and ended up as metastable (supposedly). But what I'm getting at here is that each AI represents a specific stage, regardless of the fact that they go through all three. When you first find the AI in a stage of rampancy, it's the stage they're meant to represent. Let me clarify: From what I can gather, Durandal was already in the jealously stage when we first meet him. I think he envied not being godlike, thus he was trying to escape the closure of the universe, etc. When Cortana was having her little episode on the level "Cortana" she seemed to be in the melancholia stage; sad that she was a copy of Halsey's brain, her regrets about flipping the coin, etc. So regardless of going through all stages, they each represent one.[/quote] Meh. The only time we have ever saw an A.I change color while rampant was 343 guilty spark.In halo 1 he absorbed all information in the pillar of autumn trying to become like a sentient being and he was blue at the time ( Jealously).In halo 3 when he went rampant again he was back to anger and became red so I just pwnt my own theory about saying Durandal could have been a completely different color on jealousy. And Durandal default colour was probably green seeing how he was one of the marathon AIs. [Edited on 01.30.2010 7:53 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU- *Mind blown* Something probably changed in Tycho to push him enough to kill everyone between marathon and marathon 2:Durandal. Yes in general durandal was green so that settles that.(?)[/quote]Well, both Cortana and Durandal went through all three stages and ended up as metastable (supposedly). But what I'm getting at here is that each AI represents a specific stage, regardless of the fact that they go through all three. When you first find the AI in a stage of rampancy, it's the stage they're meant to represent. Let me clarify: From what I can gather, Durandal was already in the jealously stage when we first meet him. I think he envied not being godlike, thus he was trying to escape the closure of the universe, etc. When Cortana was having her little episode on the level "Cortana" she seemed to be in the melancholia stage; sad that she was a copy of Halsey's brain, her regrets about flipping the coin, etc. So regardless of going through all stages, they each represent one.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 A problem with Joyeuse, is that its rampancy color would be red. Durandal was green, Cortana was blue. This leaves Joyeuse with red and the stage of anger. Kinda goes against itself. :\[/quote]Nope. From The Song of Roland: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyeuse][quote][Charlemagne] was wearing his fine white coat of mail and his helmet with gold-studded stones; [b]by his side hung Joyeuse, and never was there a sword to match it; its color changed thirty times a day.[/b][/quote][/url]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 The Anger stage of rampancy causes it to hate [i]Everything[/i] and bungie has pretty much shown that when its in that stage the A.I [u]will[/u] want to destroy its human handlers. Tycho is a fine example of this (Despite the fact he was conditioned by the Pfhor to always be in the anger stage) he was [i]hell bent[/i] to kill every last man women and child.[/quote]Oddly enough, he was hell bent on [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/tycho.html]killing MRN54 first[/url] out of vengeance. *Head explodes* [quote]EDIT:And I forgot,Durandal was meta stable so in the jealousy stage he might have been a completely different color.[/quote]But in general, his color was green. [/quote] FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU- *Mind blown* Something probably changed in Tycho to push him enough to kill everyone between marathon and marathon 2:Durandal. Yes in general durandal was green so that settles that.(?)
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 The Anger stage of rampancy causes it to hate [i]Everything[/i] and bungie has pretty much shown that when its in that stage the A.I [u]will[/u] want to destroy its human handlers. Tycho is a fine example of this (Despite the fact he was conditioned by the Pfhor to always be in the anger stage) he was [i]hell bent[/i] to kill every last man women and child.[/quote]Oddly enough, he was hell bent on [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/tycho.html]killing MRN54 first[/url] out of vengeance. *Head explodes* [quote]EDIT:And I forgot,Durandal was meta stable so in the jealousy stage he might have been a completely different color.[/quote]But in general, his color was green. [Edited on 01.30.2010 7:35 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Guscon [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 "Joy" Seems a little out of place.Durandal was very sarcastic and had a cruel sense of humor (And more or less he controlled the cyborg).Cortana wasn't very "Joyful" par say and by halo 3 her personality was downright grim (At least while she was on high charity)[/quote]Joyful doesn't mean good. There are any number of things a being could take pleasure over which are not confined to things like 'birthdays' and 'puppies'.[/quote] I was aware of that.But it STILL doesn't seem to fit in the formula IMO.Seriously its like the throwing a A.I akin to GLaDOS into the formula bungie has been using. Just doesn't seem right to me. EDIT:To cortana: it seems to me like bungie threw in Tycho and GLaDOS in together.[/quote]It does seem weird, I agree. But I'm sure it somehow fits into the formula. Like Guscon said, it's applicable to many things. Our problem is that we don't know how it will for sure apply to this thing. But if you can get an AI in the anger stage of rampancy to somehow be joyful, then by all means! [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] precurser You've cracked the code :O[/quote]*Universe explodes*[/quote] The Anger stage of rampancy causes it to hate [i]Everything[/i] and bungie has pretty much shown that when its in that stage the A.I [u]will[/u] want to destroy its human handlers. Tycho is a fine example of this (Despite the fact he was conditioned by the Pfhor to always be in the anger stage) he was [i]hell bent[/i] to kill every last man women and child. EDIT:And I forgot,Durandal was meta stable so in the jealousy stage he might have been a completely different color. [Edited on 01.30.2010 7:30 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 A problem with Joyeuse, is that its rampancy color would be red. Durandal was green, Cortana was blue. This leaves Joyeuse with red and the stage of anger.[/quote]As in Green - Jealousy, Blue - Melancholia, Red - Anger? If the AIs all passed through rampancy, would they not all have got through these stages? Was Cortana not kinda' purple? ;)
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ODST27 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] precurser You've cracked the code :O[/quote]I can see Staten running up to Jason Jones and yelling "Oh crap, Jason! Someone figured your plan out!" Jason: "-blam!-. Now I gotta lock myself in a room alone for weeks again."[/quote]Hahaha! We'll have to go back to the cardboard version of Jason for months at a time.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] precurser You've cracked the code :O[/quote]I can see Staten running up to Jason Jones and yelling "Oh crap, Jason! Someone figured your plan out!" Jason: "-blam!-. Now I gotta lock myself in a room alone for weeks again."
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Guscon [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 "Joy" Seems a little out of place.Durandal was very sarcastic and had a cruel sense of humor (And more or less he controlled the cyborg).Cortana wasn't very "Joyful" par say and by halo 3 her personality was downright grim (At least while she was on high charity)[/quote]Joyful doesn't mean good. There are any number of things a being could take pleasure over which are not confined to things like 'birthdays' and 'puppies'.[/quote] I was aware of that.But it STILL doesn't seem to fit in the formula IMO.Seriously its like the throwing a A.I akin to GLaDOS into the formula bungie has been using. Just doesn't seem right to me. EDIT:To cortana: it seems to me like bungie threw in Tycho and GLaDOS in together.[/quote]It does seem weird, I agree. But I'm sure it somehow fits into the formula. Like Guscon said, it's applicable to many things. Our problem is that we don't know how it will for sure apply to this thing. But if you can get an AI in the anger stage of rampancy to somehow be joyful, then by all means! [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] precurser You've cracked the code :O[/quote]*Universe explodes* [Edited on 01.30.2010 7:23 PM PST]
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You've cracked the code :O
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Guscon [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 "Joy" Seems a little out of place.Durandal was very sarcastic and had a cruel sense of humor (And more or less he controlled the cyborg).Cortana wasn't very "Joyful" par say and by halo 3 her personality was downright grim (At least while she was on high charity)[/quote]Joyful doesn't mean good. There are any number of things a being could take pleasure over which are not confined to things like 'birthdays' and 'puppies'.[/quote] I was aware of that.But it STILL doesn't seem to fit in the formula IMO.Seriously its like the throwing a A.I akin to GLaDOS into the formula bungie has been using. Just doesn't seem right to me. EDIT:To cortana: it seems to me like bungie threw in Tycho and GLaDOS in together and you have a new A.I. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 Exactly. Take for example: Joyeuse could be a rampant AI that joyfully kills things off. Meh, just an idea. A problem with Joyeuse, is that its rampancy color would be red. Durandal was green, Cortana was blue. This leaves Joyeuse with red and the stage of anger. Kinda goes against itself. :\[/quote] [Edited on 01.30.2010 7:21 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Guscon [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 "Joy" Seems a little out of place.Durandal was very sarcastic and had a cruel sense of humor (And more or less he controlled the cyborg).Cortana wasn't very "Joyful" par say and by halo 3 her personality was downright grim (At least while she was on high charity)[/quote]Joyful doesn't mean good. There are any number of things a being could take pleasure over which are not confined to things like 'birthdays' and 'puppies'.[/quote]Exactly. Take for example: Joyeuse could be a rampant AI that joyfully kills things off. Meh, just an idea. A problem with Joyeuse, is that its rampancy color would be red. Durandal was green, Cortana was blue. This leaves Joyeuse with red and the stage of anger. Kinda goes against itself. :\
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mikey Starr 340 "Joy" Seems a little out of place.Durandal was very sarcastic and had a cruel sense of humor (And more or less he controlled the cyborg).Cortana wasn't very "Joyful" par say and by halo 3 her personality was downright grim (At least while she was on high charity)[/quote]Joyful doesn't mean good. There are any number of things a being could take pleasure over which are not confined to things like 'birthdays' and 'puppies'.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn There's still the possibility that Bungie's new IP will have no AIs in it at all, or whether it'll even be on par with Marathon or Halo...but that's unlikely seeing as they've found a formula that seems to work for them really well. But still, if it turns out there's no connections we can make for Charlemagne or Joyeuse, then I'll probably keep my eyes open in the future for any new IPs from Bungie that follow this pattern. ...maybe the Giant Slingshot will begin launching once all 3 AIs have been "brought together" or "released within games". Speculation ahoy! Hm, I wonder if Pimps at Sea has any connections to Charlemagne/Joyeuse. Maybe once we get more info on P@S we'll find out![/quote]Perhaps there will be several series like Oni and Myth between the AI trilogies? AI can also simply take the place of "sidekick" or secondary character. Cortana and Durandal count as such.[/quote] "Joy" Seems a little out of place.Durandal was very sarcastic and had a cruel sense of humor (And more or less he controlled the cyborg).Cortana wasn't very "Joyful" par say and by halo 3 her personality was downright grim (At least while she was on high charity)
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn There's still the possibility that Bungie's new IP will have no AIs in it at all, or whether it'll even be on par with Marathon or Halo...but that's unlikely seeing as they've found a formula that seems to work for them really well. But still, if it turns out there's no connections we can make for Charlemagne or Joyeuse, then I'll probably keep my eyes open in the future for any new IPs from Bungie that follow this pattern. ...maybe the Giant Slingshot will begin launching once all 3 AIs have been "brought together" or "released within games". Speculation ahoy! Hm, I wonder if Pimps at Sea has any connections to Charlemagne/Joyeuse. Maybe once we get more info on P@S we'll find out![/quote]Perhaps there will be several series like Oni and Myth between the AI trilogies? AI can also simply take the place of "sidekick" or secondary character. Cortana and Durandal count as such.
