[quote]Not having an engineer can be quite debilitating to a ship. Consider the fact that Engineers are...WAY...WAY...WAY more intelligent and productive than everything else in the Covenant. The ability to quickly repair something in a matter of seconds is a pretty big advantage. I would take an engineer over 1000 drones any day! Consider the following: Let's say we were in a competition...say...computing Pi to the 1000th digit. My team consisted of super computers and your team consisted of honeybees. Which one of us will reach that 1000th digit first? See you at the finish line...sometime. My point is...having an engineer is very advantageous.[/quote] That is true, I agree almost completely, having even one Engineer would be more efficient than having a bunch of Drones, however lacking an Engineer is not stripped down, that is merely lacking one important asset, it's like a tank only having machine guns and no rocket launcher, would it still function? Yes, would it be as effective as a tank with both? No, but it would still do a number on the enemy infantry. The same thing applies here, Maccabeus ship was only lacking an Engineer, not enough to warrant being called "stripped down". [quote]Why do you keep saying this? This is not the issue at hand! I dont care if they were/were not societal equals. This is not the issue. The issue is the fact that the Elites are the GREATER OF TWO EVILS...and hence they are worse than the Brutes. You continue to dispute that Elites were worse than Brutes, despite the overwhelming evidence suggesting otherwise. Elites had better ships, and they were better equipped and better manned. This means the Elites have more killing power. But you know...lets take a second to end this equality nonsense once and for all. Sure...lets talk about equality. So the Elites and Brutes are equal hmm? The Elites have representation per capita in The Government that is the Covenant. The Brutes...do not. guess what... this is not equality. When one race has no representation in Government and another race does...this precludes the possibility of equality. This is civil rights 101...equal representation in Government. They are not societal equals. There is a caste system...and caste systems are incompatible with equality. There was a time in human history when only Caucasian Males were allowed to hold public office. This is the very definition of INEQUALITY. Much like Brutes do not hold office or a seat on the Council, this is inequality. I am going to guess you have never heard of the Civil Rights Movement, or the Suffragette Movement...[/quote] I have seen no evidence anywhere stating or implying that the Elites had better ships, other than the [i]ONE[/i] instance of Maccabeus in Harvest, which is no where near enough to back up your claim, especially since Halo 2 indicates that they were on equal footing in regards to ships. I said that they were completely equal [i][b]OTHER THAN[/b][/i], just to make sure you got that I made it bold and extra clear you would be able to see it, the Brutes not holding a seat on the council, in every other regard they are completely equal, both have the same methods at their disposal, both have equal access to military assets, both hold some of the highest military stations, and both hold the highest station in the Covenant caste system aside from the Prophets. [quote]I brought up the Gravemind example to show that even potted planets can be vicious monsters that torture people. The Elites torture, the Brutes torture, potted plants torture, and humans torture. Just because the events of the flood have a minor inconsistency with how many Marines were with Keyes, does not mean you can dismiss ALL of it as non-canon. Just because its counter-productive to your argument gives you no right to dismiss it. So a few marines were out of place when comparing the books to the game...at least its not like Reach that caused a time paradox.[/quote] I was stating that because the Flood made many errors that what it states might not be canon, I didn't say the whole story was non-canon or that it should be thrown out, merely that what is said in it might not be fact, especially things we have no other evidence to support its claims. Reach is a totally different scenario, the Flood was not written by creators of the series, Reach was. The Flood made errors, the supposed "inconsistencies" between Reach and TFoR only exist if you obstinately hold onto everything TFoR said as fact. What Reach did was retcon a few minor things, this is [i]VASTLY[/i] different than getting your information wrong and making a large number of errors. [quote]I was told Elites were always skeptical of the promise of the Great Journey, and thus religion in general. So they are skeptical when they are kicked out as honor guards, but not when they have the chance to torture a space turkey. You are either justifying torture in the name of religion, or you are contradicting established lore. Which is it? It can't be both.[/quote] Told by whom? And being skeptical of the Great Journey does not equal skeptical of religion in general, it should be painfully obvious if you've read the books that the Elites are very deeply religious, they believed the Forerunners were gods even before they encountered the Prophets, and they still believe so. I am not justifying it, I am merely stated that one will be harsher on a member of their religion or organization than they would be on one who is outside of it. And how is anything I said contradicting established canon? Nothing I said in my last pot to you contradicts it in any way. [quote]Yes...because I am sure that Zealot was showing Six, his best friend in the whole wide world, how funky his laser sword was. I am sure that's it. If Noble Six has a grave, he would be spinning in it. WRONG!!!! The Brute roars in the Marine's face, then the Brute punches the marine in the face (killing him), and then the brute throws him and laughs. [/quote] You are misreading what I stated, I said we do not see Six get stabbed at all in that cutscene or even see her die. The only time Six is stabbed, or we can infer such, is after that Zealot ignites his energy sword. I am merely stating what i have seen, and I have not seen any punching, just throwing. I will got back and check it out, and if I am wrong I will admit it, but for now I stand by my statement. [quote]And you have the nerve to call me blind, when you cannot even tell the different between a punch and a throw. You are, without a doubt, the dumbest person alive. You have reached a new low, a low that I have never, in my wildest dreams, would ever think could be reached. Also OrderedComa...you say that the Elites would never use humans weapons? To quote Anton, who was speaking in relation to Elites.[/quote] BAHAHAHA XD Oh gosh, you are an absolute scream XD Did you even read the post where I was talking about their weaponry? I said the same thing you did, that they probably have individual standards for how much of a heresy it is, as some of the Elites in Reach will actually climb into the turrets of 'Hogs and shoot at you with them.