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2/22/2016 11:36:02 AM
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Smoke is not overpowered.
However, it is ABSURDLY strong. Slows, blinds, removes radar, can add a DoT, AND disables jump abilities? By the Emperor, that's ridiculous value for a grenade, but you get it on melee, and can kill people with the impact of the projectile.
But the fun doesn't stop there! It works in concert with ridiculous zone-controlling grenades to drop people in a second. This makes Nightstalker a neutral-gaming powerhouse. Not OP, but definitely a game-changer in PvP.
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Defenders can do all this except the dot (which they don't need because the initial damage is sufficient) Oh and theirs can yank you out of your super
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No they can't? Not with their melee, anyway. They have to use modifiers and perks for their other abilities to do a portion of what Smoke just gets for free.
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Modifiers and perks? Dude all u have to do is use the suppressor grenade node. Smoke is different not op
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Suppressor grenade does ONLY the suppression of abilities on a hit, and does not stick to enemies. Smoke does the slow, the blind, a DoT in the smoke, can add a poison to anyone contacting it, and cancels movement abilities. They are not the same.
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Suppressor grenades prevent you from double jumping, takes out your radar, cancels out any passive abilities, removes cross hairs from allies and enemies making it so u don't know if the person approaching is good or bad, suppresses your grenade ability, has a bigger effective area than smoke, lasts forever, AND will yank you right out of your super or will prevent you from activating it. Oh and not to mention also can take out more than 3/4 of your health
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Supressor grenades also give a pretty distinct warning, as well as not stopping you from sprinting. Smoke is still superior by a mile.
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Edited by Tyrus_58: 2/22/2016 9:50:22 PMThat doesn't make it more powerful, the grenade let's a Titan stop any super and it charges every minute. We have to wait for a full super charge to get that ability. Your argument is that the slowing effect first and foremost makes smoke op? Dude believe me I'd prefer to do all the damage at once rather than having to wait for dot within an effective range. It slows you because if you could just run through it no one would bat an eye at smoke. Bungie themselves said nightstalker would be a support class with strong area control capabilities. how effective would the zone control of smoke be if you can just run through it. It's meant to deter you.
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My argument is all the abilities Smoke provides combine to make it super strong. That is my argument. Few other abilities have even close to that amount of utility.
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Ok thanks for explaining that. Now how would you change it without making it completely useless?
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Making it slow and blind still, but have an upgrade cause it to suppress movement abilities.
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Isnt suppressing movement under the "slow" category.
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Not stopping things like blink, shadestep, and glide.
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So not stopping people's jump? That'd still make it useless because people would just jump through it. It'd be a shitty zone control method
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That's why I said tie the ability to shut out those abilities should be a perk they have to choose. Split their utility among other perks, and make them have to specialize in zone control in order to get full value. As it stands, they just go Envenom and have maximum effectiveness with Smoke. It's a little absurd.
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Edited by Tyrus_58: 2/23/2016 1:30:02 PMThere's no room to customize it like that, there's a node for invisibility, one for setting traps and venom is the most offensive one. The trap smoke (the one I use) doesn't even tickle opponents in the damage category, it's just for if someone decides to sprint around the corner at you, they get a face full of smoke. Also if you make people pick n choose what gets suppressed it just loses its utility. Like the only reason I use it is to slow and blind which is why I use the one with low damage. But the envenomed one suits the playtime of those who don't want to play passively and want their smoke to do the damage a normal melee Should do Also, our smoke has the same effects as the wizard smoke so it's nothing new. They pretty much copy n pasted their ability onto us, I don't think it's as simple as just changing the available effects
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Smoke cannot kill people with impact. And nightstalkers have the worst grenade choice of any class
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Wrong and wrong. The actual grenade they toss hits faces for 30 damage. It's a hilarious kill to make, and has clutched fights.
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Yes, you can stick people with it for impact damage, even with envenomed it still will not kill by itself. Try it yourself or look it up
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Both can and often will execute an injured opponent. While also providing all of its other benefits.
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Dude. Any charged melee will finish off someone who has taken at least 40 damage (half of the over shield gone) only difference is smoke can't do it instantly like literally every other melee
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Smoke does so much more by default than any other class' melee.
