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Edited by Ethica1:
2/19/2016 9:23:21 PM
63
Bungie Responds: Are snipers OP or not?
I've seen a lot of "crying" (and "counter-crying") about the current state of sniper rifles in the crucible, particularly in reference to 1000YS and Stillpiercer. Everyone seems to have an opinion about it, and so does Bungie. So to settle it, I thought I'd just ask Bungie's Sandbox Designer, Jon Weisnewski. Here's what he had to say...
Jon: "As part of the December Update, we’re about to change Destiny with another balance pass based on data collection from the wild, community feedback, and internal response to the 2.0 weapon changes. It is our hope that, with more frequent updates, the change log becomes less of an almanac and more of a newsletter. As always, thanks for sounding off and continuing to play with us!"
Me: "Skip to the point, Jon!"
Jon: "SNIPER RIFLES
Damage falloff on Sniper Rifles is here to stay! [ducks] But, we’re pushing it out a bit further to ensure that a precision head shot is consistently rewarded. With the new values Sniper lethality should only be affected at really, really long combat distances.
Speaking of rewarding precision head shots, Luck in the Chamber will now only grant a precision damage bonus when the perk rolls on a Sniper Rifle.
Goals:
Sniper Rifles are optimal at long range, and difficult to use for medium or short range combat
Sniper Rifles reward thumb skill with high damage against precision targets
The Luck in the Chamber perk on Sniper Rifles should still require precision shots
Changes:
Extend Sniper Rifle damage falloff so damage only reduces for very long range shots.
Luck in the Chamber on Sniper Rifles now only buffs precision damage."
...ok, so I didn't really talk to him. But I pulled this straight from the most recent patch notes that explained how each weapon class should fit/feel in the game, where they shine and where they just can't hang.
But every argument I've read here in the forums about the issue is all personal feelings and people checking each other's kd. Instead of arguing our own opinions, how about we first find some common ground? Read what Bungie says about it. Pay special attention to when Jon talks about their goals for sniper rifles. Then sound of in the comments.
Do you think the current state of sniper rifles holds true to what Bungie's goals were?
If not, what do you think could be done to bring sniper rifles closer to that goal?
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4 RepliesSo first off. Im an extreme sniper enthusiast. I love precision weapons. I dont own the thousand yard stare. I do have the stillpiercer. But i have the defiance of yasmin equipped. Its collecting dust outside of pve. Snipers are inconsistent. I dont like feeling tethered to special ammo crates. Im far more lethal with my scout. I can kill 6 people with the sniper on spawn. Only the first. I can kill far more with the scout. Theyre NOT overpowered. Theyre not an issue. The only problem are the guys who insta kill you with them as you round a corner. After they do it once? You make not of their name and appearance. You watch for them. And you kill them. Dont let it happen again. Everything weapon has a counter. Tactics. Snipers are no different. Just my experience.
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3 RepliesHow about sway when scoped in?
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1 ReplyI think reverse damage falloff would be good. Where it does maximum damage at long range and reduced damage at close range
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1 ReplyA lot more flinching needs to happen while being shot and cut down a lot on aim assist.
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2 RepliesPetition to buff fusion rifles
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1 ReplySniper rife can only be fired in the scope and all sniper rife become two shot cuase all other games have sway or hold bearth or even both in order to snipe.
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1 ReplyYes, snipers are overused. But, nothing will change that until bungie decides it's time to bring another weapon archetype to shine. This last iron banner has shown me that we are at standstill for progress in pvp. Literally the majority of people are hanging back and sniping. There were rounds (running with my clan) that no one was killed by a primary. NO ONE! That simply shouldn't happen.
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Edited by Doctor Electric: 3/1/2016 4:50:57 AMIt's just the zoom, I'm alone in this, when you zoom in with the sniper, you should be only able to see a close up of your target. In Destiny, zooming in at any range means you can see everything in front of you, which allows you to snap quickly to incoming targets that, in a different game, you wouldn't be able to see. Add the factors of aim assist and aim acceleration from these PS4 and Xbox one controllers and you get some kind of insane mess.
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9 RepliesEdited by Ah You Shot me: 2/26/2016 4:28:55 AMThis is why all high impact snipers should be bolt action lol. I know No Land Beyond is. But others should too I know it seems abit much but if they're bolt action it would make you think befor you just sit next to a fire with a bolt action sniper lol Also this doesn't apply to black spindle that's fine, because a lot of people won't trade in exotic slot for a special weapon over a mida or TLW you catch my drift..
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2 RepliesGuys the obvious solution is to nerf fusion rifles
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Maybe this: introduce a minimum range requirement for all snipers in pvp only. Maybe >100m...Or else an inverse ratio of damage inflicted based on proximity to target: the closer you are to target, the less damage you do. Obviously the Complete opposite to the laws of physics, but it would cure the short range sniper problem. If you get head shot by sniper from that distance then you have to suck it up...
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1 ReplyOver Used =/= Over Powered. This community needs to get over the ridiculous line of thinking that because everyone is using a gun they get during the story (1000 Yard Stare) that all the sudden it is OP and needs a nerf, or a class nerf, or whatever else they want. The gun is used because the gun is effective. That doesn't make it over powered.
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4 Replies1. I don't think Jon or Sage really understand how to work with a weapon system like this. I think Jon's notion's of balance (as outlined in a recent Planet Destiny podcast) are misguided....and I think that they are trying to impose a Halo-esque paradigm on a weapon system that is IMCOMPATIBLE WITH IT. Which is why we get a rotating series of dominant weapons...and a special weapon spamming problem that Bungie can't seem to fix without actually having to break the weapons. http://guardian.gg/en/weapon-stats?platform=2&start=2015-11-01&end=2016-02-28&mode=14&activity=0 These are the stats showing the impact of the December patch (nerfing shotguns range and handling, plus nerfing pulse rifle base damage) on the weapon effectiveness (kills) in the crucible. Although the link provides data only for Trials of Osiris and most of the other major team PVP modes show similar trends. Prior to the December patch, the highest percentage of kills in the Crucible were from primary weapons. Pulse rifles mainly. Which given the way most Year Two Crucible maps are designed, that is understandable. But with the December patch, the bottom drops out of PR kills----and primary weapon kills in general----and sniper rifle kills spike as the nerfs to shotguns made CQC much more of an unpredictable event. Does this mean that sniper rifles are OP? IMO, no. What they are evidence of IS THAT THE PRIMARY WEAPON TTK IN DESTINY RIGHT NOW IS SIMPLY TOO LONG. Which means that sniper rifles are out of balance...and that there is very little disadvantage to using one, and spamming it if you're reasonably good at it. What it means---if we are to have a healthier weapon system, and not this constantly shifting series of dominant weapons----is that primary weapons need to be buffed...and in play modes where there is more CQC (and DoP and other good ARs are starting to make their presence felt...you're seeing a much more reasonable distribution of numbers.
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4 RepliesEdited by Ninjaslash52: 2/27/2016 3:40:02 PMThe fire rate is so high for the damage it does I'd hate to compare it to CoD but at least there it's a decent fire rate for the amount of damage you can do also damage should be area specific like where in the body you hit
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1 Reply[b]The Real Question: Are They Overused?[/b] If they are, and Bungie still doesn't nerf them, then the bias finally reveals itself. Unless they actually buff something in response. I'll be waiting for those days.
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2 RepliesThey are difficult to use at short range, I only see good players pull of a kill at short range
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2 RepliesThere's always going to be something else to complain about. When the next balance change happens, you'll see it'll be something else
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we are all 319 but will take anyone for hard raid message BEN RICE 10 for an inv 6+
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3 RepliesThe issue is threefold with snipers: 1. They get enough ammo to last an entire math without using any other weapon 2. They are easy to use, even outside their effective range 3. After the recent pulse rifle nerf there are no ways to challenge a sniper, they are consistently accurate even under sustained fire. Possible Solutions: 1. Tweak sniper ammo so that a player cannot use one for the entirety of a match without running out 2. Reduce damage at close range 3. Add some equalising measure in close to mid range to ensure that if a sniper is ambushed with sustained fire they are not able to instakill their attacker. Eg: Remove unflinching, Descope on precision hit etc. I'm not saying do all of this, but to hit their objective they need to do something. If the current play type is what Bungie desire, they should consider the extremely negative feedback on sniper rifles and think about changing it.
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5 RepliesSimple fix is to pull out of ads if damage is taken.
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7 RepliesTo use snipers in close quarters in destiny you merely set the reticle at head height if they're coming around a corner. That's the same with almost every game with snipers.
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2 RepliesUgh no its dumb, snipers should easily be able to kill 100yards away. It is a sniper for Christ's sake. [i]-ATullo[/i]
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Leave sniper DPS the same. Just decrease accuracy when moving or at very short ranges. A lot of good snipers can hit head shots at close range but if you are moving, it should be a whole lot harder to hit someone.
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2 RepliesEdited by The Overlord: 2/26/2016 4:29:57 AMSnipers are Op if you know how to use them , I'm pretty good myself ,even do a little NLB action here and there
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1 ReplyIf anything remove the close range scopes and restore shotguns. I currently use my sniper as a shotty in cq situations because the close range scope just makes it too easy :)
