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Edited by Ginger Avenger:
2/1/2016 8:02:36 PM
39
Hand Cannons are not broken
(Long post, TL;DR at bottom)
I recently saw a post saying hand cannons were broken and needed fixing. I started to reply, then realized it was too long and I was better off making my own post.
Also this all excludes The Last Word
If hand cannons were ever broken, it was in year 1 when they were too accurate at too long of a range, causing them to be overpowered. The way hand cannons are now is (mostly) the way they should be. If you tried to use a hand cannon now the way it was used in year 1, you wouldn't land a single shot. HCs, imo, are high-risk, high-reward weapons that require the skill of a patient sharpshooter. If you shoot as fast as you can and continue to body shot or miss, you are using it wrong, or HCs are not for you. I've recently become skilled with Hawkmoon because I have learned to be patient (to an extent) and take time to line up my headshots, instead of shooting full speed until I get a headshot. True masters can chain headshots at full speed.
The only complaint I have about hand cannons is that they seem to have dropped to the range of an auto rifle. Currently hand cannons only work on mid-range maps such as exodus blue, twilight gap, and burning shrine. Unless you have hammer forged (increase range and accuracy) it's hard to land precision shots beyond auto rifle range. I think hand cannons should be about the range of the pulse rifle (though in year 1 HCs almost rivaled the range of the scout rifle).
Conclusion/ TL;DR: Hand cannons were broken in year 1, are now harder to use, as they should be, though maybe could use a little more range.
Edit: Ok I agree with the replies saying extra reserve ammo needed, but that's mostly a PvE thing, reserve ammo isn't important in PvP, which is what I'm focusing on right now.
Edit: this "shot pacing" thing is not something I was aware of, apparently true masters CANT chain headshots at full rof because it's impossible. This also explains the complaints about accuracy. While this is a significant nerf, I think it accomplishes what they intended on nerfing hand cannons, unfortunately it caused scout rifles to pull ahead.
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4 RepliesActually they are, because random bullets will simply miss even when lined up perfectly and well within range, it's not as bad as pre patch, but it makes them unusable for me..... If my sights are lined up, the bullet should go there, just like all other primary weapons, none of this bullet cone nonsense....
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The ammo reserves is lol Honestly that's the only reason why I've stopped using them in pve content
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I remember hand cannons in the beta...man those were TERRIBLE! Current ones aren't that bad but they could use a buff in accuracy.
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Their hit registration and range is pretty bad
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I'm a year 2 player, but handcannons look broken to me. I used my eyasluna and some hits wouldn't register. Other part is no one uses handcannons in pve. If handcannons aren't broken well then why aren't people using them in pve?
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I do just fine with my Eyasluna. Hand cannons feel nice, and I've been using hand cannons since alpha.
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Right now hitting somebody with a HC is actually RNG!
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The shot pacing is the biggest problem. No other weapon class has it, which puts handcannons at a noticeable disadvantage from any range. From what I've seen, high impact hand cannons like The First Curse are nearly worthless in PVP, which is why I honestly can't remember the last time that I was killed by one... There is no reason that a scout rifle should be able to outgun a high impact hand cannon in close quarters scenarios. Hand cannons don't "stagger" opponents like auto rifles or pulse rifles do at close range, which is why shot pacing on them makes no sense...
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Got a great idea. Too great. Ready? Separate pvp and pve COMPLETELY so the pvp players can get that super long time to kill they want and us pve players can have bad ass guns that are fun. So simple yet so so so impossible. As is bungie,and as it will continue. ..... Ahh well I'm about totally burned out. Rightfully so, 700 hours since 10/2014. Good game, GREAT potential. Hopefully they figure this mysterious balance thing out and get that nasty link between pve/pvp severed.
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4 RepliesI loved how no one complained about HAWKMOON in year 1 even though it was around Id say top 3 best weapon in the game.
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If they fix the shitty ammo economy HC's would be fine. And that's really only as issue for PvE.
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They need to fix the PVE damage they did to them with the carrying capacity.
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9 RepliesI disagree. Range was to much in year 1, I'll give you that. But just because they were broken then does not mean they are not now. Short range, high risk demands reliability. Especially when you consider magazine size, fire rate, and reload speed typical of hand cannons. The accuracy is just not reliable. Lined up, carefully aimed shots simply miss. This could be a product of lag in the crucible, but it also happens in pve so I have my doubts.
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6 RepliesEdited by Sweeper Bot: 2/1/2016 6:10:18 PMNice post. They need to carry more ammo is my objection. I can kill 100-200 enemies with my scout before needing ammo. A hand cannon only carries 50-70 shots now, which makes them a worthless choice for many activities.[spoiler]By the way, don't put a TLDR on posts or comments. If they don't have the patience to read the post, they don't deserve to be on the forums.[/spoiler]
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Range is fine, It's the accuracy that sucks balls
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3 RepliesWho cares. No one uses a primary anyway except when they run out of special ammo.
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2 RepliesEdited by MaZteRmINd: 2/1/2016 5:44:09 PMI'm ok with the handcannons as they are now they just need more reserve ammo. All I ask is Bungie replace hammer forged with rifled barrel for Hawkmoon so the range isn't crap.
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Their range now is appropriate
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1 Reply[quote]If hand cannons were ever broken, it was in year 1 when they were too accurate at too long of a range, causing them to be overpowered. The way hand cannons are now is (mostly) the way they should be. [/quote] Where should i start... That's [i]your[/i] opinion, and you 're entitled to it. HCs right now are a poor backup choice to follow up sniper shots. They are not a regular primary. You would be better off with a mid RoF AR in every situation now. At the time it takes too [b]patiently[/b] land three consecutive headshots, you 're already dead. Twice. Any primary right now has a faster ttk than HCs. It's funny you mention hawkmoon and TLW. Hawkmoon can [i]neglect[/i] the shortcomings of the HC class by getting lucky bullets. Sooo, you got kills with Hawkmoon? That's because you got lucky. Literally. Every other HC has been reduced to a mere fraction of their former self and only serves as remnant of the past. There probably won't be any HCs in destiny 2, at least not in their current state. TLW is, well, in it's own league. Choosing single point sling instead of any range makes it the perfect backup weapon. [i]- A former HC user -[/i]
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Been using a Appellant III with Smallbore, find it rather reliable believe it or not (though it does have the highest base range of the max RoF HandCs). That said their TTK is generally rather fair across the board, Max RoF models pull ahead over many primary types but with the exception of NM all have a Range of 15 base, Imago-likes are middle of the pack in kill time and max Impact models have the longest of all primaries assuming you can't two crit.
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Edited by Kill-shot_X-X: 2/1/2016 7:32:56 AM5-10 bullets to a single clip and reserve ammo sux though and the reload speed sux. Unless u have the right perks to compensate, definitely need a semi buff. The exception is hawkmoon. 13 rounds per clip ain't too bad.
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Need more reserve ammo
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1. No ammo 2. Don't stand much of a chance in PvP (hence no one uses them, excluding the exotics)
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Just improve the handcannon accuracy - the damage fall-off is fine. Close range it shouldn't miss, and you should still be able to land headshots consistently at mid range only the damage is lower.
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10 RepliesEdited by bren12310: 2/1/2016 11:25:29 AMThron can only 3 shot if you get at least 1 head shot A mida can 3 shot if you get 1 head shot A hawk saw can 3 shot if you get 1 head shot If hand cannons are broken then all other guns are broken cause they're doing the exact same thing other guns are doing Edit: even if a mida is a 4 shot kill it still fires it's 4 shots a lot faster than a thorn can fire 3
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Hand cannons need a reserve ammo buff
